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The Missing Piece

LogGrad98 said:
You always extend the QO, unless you are dead set on not bringing them back.
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You can usually rescind it too... unless the guy accepts it immediately.
 
LogGrad98 said:
You always extend the QO, unless you are dead set on not bringing them back.
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I disagree. Exum might get over the 9 mill QO on a gamble but he hasn't shown anything in the way of deserving it outside of flashes. And those flashes were largely a byproduct is the system QS has shown to increase every pg's scoring output. Hill, DM, Exum, Nero, Ingles in that role... All of them.
 
idestroyedthetoilet said:
I disagree. Exum might get over the 9 mill QO on a gamble but he hasn't shown anything in the way of deserving it outside of flashes. And those flashes were largely a byproduct is the system QS has shown to increase every pg's scoring output. Hill, DM, Exum, Nero, Ingles in that role... All of them.
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His QO is like 5m... extend it no problem. If he accepts it that isn’t a problem either.

Guys get paid on potential in the nba... it’s the risk you take when selecting a 19 YO who never played college ball... the rookie deal is up and you still aren’t sure what you have.
 
dalamon said:
Tobias Harris is really the only player that satisfies most of those criteria, frankly.

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With our roster as it currently stands, we are third in the western conference-- after Golden State and Houston. Keep in mind, we stole a game in Houston with both Rubio and Sefalosha out-- series likely at least went 6, perhaps even 7 with a fully healthy Jazz roster.

We need to understand what our strengths were, where we got exposed, and what it will take to make the next step.

Things that stood out to me from these playoffs--

i) defensively I thought we were fine against Houston, especially in the half-court. If there was games we got blown apart, it was generally ****** offence leading to Houston attacking before we could back-track. They had multiple games where they looked dreadful shooting from 3 point land. It took a playoff career-high from Chris Paul to eke out past the jazz @ houston
ii) we *could not* punish Houston for hiding small players on Rudy-- passes that would make it to him were either not on target, late, or he botched them. To me, this was the kicker-- and this is where Rubio's absence was most felt (along with Dante's later in the series). Rudy is, at times, an extremely potent offensive weapon who draws traffic, and can kick it open to the corners when he does-- unfortunately, in the series we just watched, Rudy was rendered ineffective by thr trio fo Tucker, Paul, and Capela.
iii) The presence of Favors was key to advancing past OKC-- meanwhile, both Golden State and Houston run a list of shorter stretch-4s that render Derrick's advantages fairly ineffective. Additionally, at this point Derrick Favors is not a consistent three-point threat (despite his two threes against OKC in Game 2, I believe).
iv) to go past Houston or Golden State, we need to go past the two most difficult pick-and-roll coverages arguably in the entire NBA. If we sign Jabari, we simply cannot play him in crunch-time minutes because he will be exposed. Don't you remember how teams would search out Kanter in these PnRs when they played against us? Similarly, we would seek out James Harden and Carmelo Anthony in these playoffs-- mind you, James Harden is formidable and he had Capela behind him so that's why Donovan wasn't averaging 30 through the series.

So, to me, a few questions remain--

i) if we do not retain Favors, does this cripple our switchability on defence, as well as our ability to move past teams like POR, NOL, and OKC?
ii) if we do retain Favors, does that clog the pain and render Rudy's ability to impose an offensive presence ineffective?
iii) if we pick up a stretch 4 to replace Rudy, and provide another release valve on offence, will we be able to play this player in crunch-time or will the minutes be allocated to the likes of Jae Crowder? Can we afford to pay 20mil/yr to a player who we can't play in crunch-time?


At times like these, it helps to be able to have spreadsheets and statistically analyze our players vs players around the league, and see how they best fit with us. I think not enough attention is being paid to the potential of Rubio being a third key cog in our offence, nor is the presence of Derrick Favors being recognized as a key component to our defence (Crowder can't guard the 4 30 minutes a game, 82 games a year). If Tobias Harris mocks out as a league average defender, then I think you need to really throw an unprotected first and Jones Jerebko or something. Some sort of package that still retains our top 8 players. Same holds true for Jabari-- if our analysis overwhelmingly shows confidence that he can provide league average defence, we should look into him.
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You really get it.
 
NUMBERICA said:
You really get it.
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thank you-- really liked how you systematically went through the OP.

I'd argue that "having a big 3" is a bit NBA meme-y (which is truly one of my biggest pet peeves; who's the 3rd of the 3 on the brillaint Cavs offence rn?) and i'd prefer just looking at the evidence of why we could not prevail. Unfortunately, it's hard to assess the talent of this team with Rubio being injured-- well, in some senses at least. Him being absent really exposed how much trouble Donovan has playing the PG full-time when it comes to getting the bigs involved, as well as exposing to Rudy how embarrassingly little he was able to take advantage of switches. I swear he wasn't being guarded by Capela for the majority of the series-- when he was, he'd throw up this soft as **** hook that would get sent back to St. George Utah.

Anyways-- all we can really rely on here is our eyeballs, cuz none of us have the time nor the software to grind through the advanced stats that could help sway us. One promising thing is that Rodney Hood never projected by the analytics as a overwhelmingly net negative on defence, despite his pylon-D currently on exhibition in Cleveland. However, him being a wing means he's taken advantage of us less frequently in pick-and-roll situations-- that's why it's so crippling when you have a big that can't keep up on that play.

Ultimately, i've see-sawed a little bit on my opinion of Derrick sticking around-- but not having the analytics currently at my disposal, I'd prefer Tobias to Favors. If we keep Favors, I'm assuming it's because the other options pose a risk of destroying our defence, coupled with perhaps a confidence in Derrick Favors extending his range.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Watch him play, check his stats, see how he is used in games. We can absolutely objectively identify if he would be an upgrade over any of our guys. Yes different coaches do different things for different players but you cannot bet the farm on Snyder turning anybody into a star.
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Doesn't matter what me or you can objectively identify. If we don't make a run at him then we can assume that the people who make the decisions agree with you. If they do, then they agree with me.

I don't think it's betting the farm either way though. It's just cap space that we'd give to someone else. And they will identify who it's best used on. Trading assets and a big contract, now that's the farm.
 
Bawse Dawg said:
Doesn't matter what me or you can objectively identify. If we don't make a run at him then we can assume that the people who make the decisions agree with you. If they do, then they agree with me.

I don't think it's betting the farm either way though. It's just cap space that we'd give to someone else. And they will identify who it's best used on. Trading assets and a big contract, now that's the farm.
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Do you consider any of Favors, Exum, Thabo, Jerebko, or Udoh assets? Because in order to make a run using cap space, you have to walk on all of them. Effectively trading them, for the purposes of this scenario.
 
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