The Morman hypothetical

[Edgewriter]

I am really hoping you are just being hyperbolic. While we might disagree on the individual applications of "right" and "wrong" as applied to certain actions, in my experience most religious people and most atheists have the exact same concepts of what "right" and "wrong" are.

What I meant was that there are somethings that we believe are right or wrong that you do not because you don't share the faith.

For instance, as a Mormom we believe it is wrong for us to smoke or drink. For us it is a sin because we made covenants to god that we would not. I do not view others that smoke or drink as sinning by doing so unless they made similar promises to themselves or others. Maybe others of my faith would disagree with that, but I think the majority see it that way.

There are multiple reasons for those outside the church to avoid smoking and drinking, but most atheists would have no reason to think it was wrong to smoke or drink (not having made the same promises) unless they had a substance abuse problem or felt that someone elses smoking or drinking would impinge on their rights (then it is wrong for them to smoke in public and laws must be posted to ban them from doing so).

Now when it comes to Homosexuality, we have a similar issue. Mormons believe that sex is a sin unless done within marriage. All sex done outside of marriage is considered a sin. We are taught from the time we are old enough to understand that we should wait until we get married.

There are also multiple reasons for those that don't have religious beliefs to wait, but who would want to without extra motivation? In most of society, kids are taught that it is okay and perhaps even prefferable to "get it on" as often as they can. Most of my friends and family that are non members of the church have this ideal in their minds and I don't blame them any more than I do my friends that smoke or drink. I do appreciate that they don't shove it in my face all the time and I don't get after them or call them sinners or anything.

One doctrine of the church is that we are held to different standards by God because we made our promises to stay away from certain things. Thise that do not believe that what they are doing is wrong will not have the same resulting judgment as one that believed it was wrong and did it anyway.

Also for Douchey Mc Doucherson:

Hi friend,,,

I also only do good things because I'll be punished in the afterlife if I don't. I think those athiests who only do good things because they appear like the right thing to do morally in this life aren't looking at the whole picture. What really matters is whether or not you'll get punished for it. Thanks for reading.

- Craig

This is what I meant by atheists being snobs.

It's not about punishment. It's not about fear of what will happen to us that motivates us. It is the desire to do the right thing. We don't believe that it will be pitchforks awaiting those that sin. We believe that we made promises before we came to earth and made promises after we got here. Hell will be when we stand before our heavenly father and remember all the promises we made and all the promises we broke and we will have to live with that for eternity.

Viny asked for honesty (in his sweet little sarcastic and manipulative way) and That is what I am giving you.

 

[One Brow]

What I meant was that there are somethings that we believe are right or wrong that you do not because you don't share the faith.

So, because we disagree on particulars that may be right or wrong, you can't respect what I have to say on the subject?

 

[Scat]

So, because we disagree on particulars that may be right or wrong, you can't respect what I have to say on the subject?

I don't recall Edge disrespecting you in any way whatsoever. In fact, he wrote this:

Most of my friends and family that are non members of the church have this ideal in their minds and I don't blame them any more than I do my friends that smoke or drink.

Seems fairly respectful to me.

He's simply trying to explain where he's coming from and why he believes what he believes. I've found Edge's posts to be some of the more thougtful, less obnoxious posts.

 

[Craig K. Manscill]

Edgewriter,,,

It looks like there is a little confusion or we got off on the wrong foot... I agree with you that our morals are like an athiests morals, but we have that extra incentive from afterlife rewards/punishments. So while they might do good for reasons pertaining to life, we do good for that, but mainly focusing on our rewards/punishments in the hereafter. I think it's a great reason to do the right thing.

I also agree that homosexuals in the church should wait until they can get married before having sex. So we agree more than you might think.

-Craig

 

[One Brow]

I don't recall Edge disrespecting you in any way whatsoever. In fact, he wrote this:

I don't recall saying Edgewriter was disrespectful. However, Edgewriter also wrote, " They don't believe in the concept of right and wrong the same way we do, so they will not have respect for anything you have to say on the subject.".

Now, maybe he didn't mean what he wrote. So, that's why I asked him if he meant it when people don't agree on morality, they don't have respect for the opinions of others.

 

[Hopper]

The disrespect which militant atheists routinely flaunt has nuthin to do with what's right or wrong. It's mainly an intellectual pose, with the atheists being reasonable (if not brilliant) and non-atheists being stupid fools.

 

[One Brow]

The disrespect which militant atheists routinely flaunt has nuthin to do with what's right or wrong. It's mainly an intellectual pose, with the atheists being reasonable (if not brilliant) and non-atheists being stupid fools.

I find to be true of militants from just about any group.

 

[Hopper]

I find to be true of militants from just about any group.

Witcha there, homeboy.

 

[Edgewriter]

I don't recall saying Edgewriter was disrespectful. However, Edgewriter also wrote, " They don't believe in the concept of right and wrong the same way we do, so they will not have respect for anything you have to say on the subject.".

Now, maybe he didn't mean what he wrote. So, that's why I asked him if he meant it when people don't agree on morality, they don't have respect for the opinions of others.

One Brow My statement wasn't meant to disrespect you or any atheist in particular. Duuchey McDoucherson however is still douchey and I may have to claim mutual disrespect with him.

You said: "I asked him if he meant it when people don't agree on morality, they don't have respect for the opinions of others. "

There is a difference between respecting someones morals and respecting someone's opinion. When people don't respect my opinion it isn't a big deal to me. I take my morals more personally.

My opinion is that we should respect each others beliefs

What I meant by that statement was that Atheists tend to dismiss our sense of right and wrong when it has a religious context. In my experience, when you tell them that you "believe" something, they view your belief as irrelevant.

 

[moevillini]

part of it is that we can only see this from our own perspective. Someone who believes our morals are divine and came "from God" applies that belief to everyone. Someone who is a skeptic towards God, and believes that morals came from the social contract that "man" developed through his own social interactions, believes that applies to everyone. It doesn't matter how much you tell me your morals came from God, since I don't believe in God, I can't accept that as the origin of your morals, and I'll continue to believe that your morals came from the "social contract" regardless of how much you try to convince me of the opposite.

it's like if I believe babies come from the stork, then it doesn't matter what you believe - I'm going to believe you came from a stork, no matter how much you try to tell me otherwise.

anyhow, that's how I interpreted what Edge was saying.


at any rate, the bottom line is that it doesn't really matter whether or not we agree on where they came from, as long as we agree on similar basic principles of right and wrong

 

[Hopper]

...it doesn't really matter whether or not we agree on where they came from, as long as we agree on similar basic principles of right and wrong

Peoples aint never gunna agree on basic principles of right and wrong, eh, Mo? Is it right (wrong) to execute brutal criminals known to have commited atrocious crimes?

Unfortunately, far too many people, after all the big talk is finished, tend to reduce "right" and "wrong" to what is convenient for, and beneficial to, them, personally.

 

[Hopper]

Certain cultures place relatively little value on comfort, safety, and the "regulation" of others and put a much higher premium on strength, bravery, and self determination. Ancient Spartans and certain native indian tribes come to mind, as examples.

Many have argued that those who value the former more than the latter are "decadent" (as opposed to vital) cultures. Who's right?