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The Morman hypothetical

One Brow said:
Strong atheists certainly have a belief system, although I would not call it a religion.
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Ya really think some of these atheists aren't devoted fundamental evangelicist types who are out to proselytize and convert 24/7, Eric?

"Michael Shermer, Michael Ruse, Eugenie Scott and others are probably right that contemptuous ridicule is not an expedient way to change the minds of those who are deeply religious. But I think we should probably abandon the irremediably religious precisely because that is what they are – irremediable. I am more interested in the fence-sitters who haven’t really considered the question very long or very carefully. And I think that they are likely to be swayed by a display of naked contempt. Nobody likes to be laughed at. Nobody wants to be the butt of contempt." Richard Dawkins
 
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Hopper said:
Ya really think some of these atheists aren't devoted fundamental evangelicist types who are out to proselytize and convert 24/7, Eric?
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I disagree that proselytization implies an undertaking is religious.

Perhaps, rather than try to define the ontological status of a belief system by the behavior of a minority of people who accept it, you could put som eeffort into justifying that ontology?
 
Awww, I don't really care about elaborate attempts to define sumthin, eh, Eric? Dark cited an essay by some militant atheist anthropologist which I presume you looked at. I did too, but not too carefully. But many would seemingly define "religion" to include devotion to such "creeds" as communism, secular humanism (which the Supreme Court is this country has said is a "religious" organization entitled to first amendment protection and tax exempt status, etc), existentialism, etc.

I quoted a dictionary definition (one of several) which made "faith" and "ardor," as opposed to a specific content, a defining element of religious devotion and belief.. If you want to exclude all defintions of "religion" from your thinking, other than a very narrow one which you prefer, help yourself. I don't care if you call the same thing "religious" that I do.
 
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But the fanaticism, zeal, and dedication with which some atheists attempt to spread their "gospel," strikes me as bein very similar to some on the theistic side, know what I'm sayin?
 
An excerpt from (just one of many available) treastises arguing that secular humanism is, and should be treated as, a religion:

"In June 1951 The Humanist published an article by Manifesto signer Edwin H. Wilson, “Humanism: The Fourth Faith.” He wrote:

Today, I am suggesting that there is in the world as a present and potent faith, embraced by vast numbers, yet seldom mentioned — a fourth faith — namely Humanism. This fourth faith — with rare exceptions such as some Universalist or Unitarian churches, a few independent Humanist Fellowships and the Ethical Societies — has no church to embody it…. Theirs is a secular faith.” According to Wilson, the other three faiths are Protestantism, Catholicism, and Judaism.

https://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/opinion/sam-blumenfeld/3001-is-humanism-a-religion
 
Of course the potential problem humanism, when calling itself a religion, encounters is that it wants to establish itself as the dominant belief system in the public schools:

Humanist editor Joe R. Burnett suggested as much in the Nov.-Dec. 1961 issue of The Humanist (p. 347) when arguing in favor of federal aid to education. He said:

“Humanists obviously have a vital interest in the passage of a strong bill for federal aid to public education. Without wanting to push the analogy too far, one might say that public education is the parochial education for scientific humanism.”

(same site as above)
 
Here's a lil serenade, eh, Mo?

Gots me a hot rod Fode, anna two-dolla bill...
An I knowz a joint just up ovva da hill...
They gotz ice-cold beer anna sawdust flo....
Cmon, Purty Mama, we can rock and roll!

Sedda, Hay, there, Good-lookin....Watcha gotz cookin? Howze bout cookin sumthin up wit me!?
 
Hopper said:
Awww, I don't really care about elaborate attempts to define sumthin, eh, Eric? Dark cited an essay by some militant atheist anthropologist which I presume you looked at. I did too, but not too carefully. But many would seemingly define "religion" to include devotion to such "creeds" as communism, secular humanism (which the Supreme Court is this country has said is a "religious" organization entitled to first amendment protection and tax exempt status, etc), existentialism, etc.

I quoted a dictionary definition (one of several) which made "faith" and "ardor," as opposed to a specific content, a defining element of religious devotion and belief.. If you want to exclude all defintions of "religion" from your thinking, other than a very narrow one which you prefer, help yourself. I don't care if you call the same thing "religious" that I do.
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You quoted: "Main Entry: re·li·gion 4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith."

Under this definition, being a fan of the Utah Jazz is a religion. However, no one would call the Utah Jazz a religion on it's own. It's the ardor/devotion of the fan that makes it like a religion to the person. I don't feel the need to exclude all definitions of religion, but I do separate the metaphorical definitions from the ontological. Strong atheism is not a religion, even though it acts in that capacity for some atheists.
 
One Brow said:
Strong atheism is not a religion, even though it acts in that capacity for some atheists.
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Well, why not, eh, Eric? It does, after all, preach reliable conclusions about the existence of a supreme bein, the existence of an afterlife, all that kinda stuff, don't it? Aint that sumthin ya can kinda structure your life, beliefs, activities and morals around? I mean, it deals with the BIG questions, don't it? One has a basic obligation to his fellow man to convert others to that kinda truth, don't he?
 
If your contention is that one simple belief, standin all by itself, is insufficient to be called a religion, I see your point, but that aint really the issue here. Theism, in isolation, is not a "religion" either, but it's got the makins of one.
 
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