The Night Sloan resigned...

[Harambe]

Furthermore, why do we think that Greg had the final say? Who do we assume the entire jazz organization was behind Jerry 100 percent? I imagine that much of the organization, the GM in particular, probably supported the superstar over a coach who was probably going to retire anyway. I agree with Gunther's theory, that the Deron trade was more of Gail being pissed at him running Sloan out of town. She did what her husband would have done. Do what was best for the long term health of the entire organization. Cut your losses and move on.

I agree with most of what you're saying, except this line. Not only do I not agree with it (see rebuilding era - 2000-2005, when Larry didn't always do what's best for the team, including but not limited to Milt Palacio, Raul Lopez, lack of free agency movement, AK Max contract), but I find it reprehensible that you use Larry as the "dead super owner" and then say someone's actions are "what he'd have done" in an attempt to add weight to your own view.

That's just bad juju bro. I won't neg you for it, but you might wanna think that path through again.

If anything good comes from this thread, I hope it's closure. This is what happened. Yes, there was some controversy, yes Deron had a hand in it, but he's not a monster. He's just a superstar that wants to win more than anything. I'm sure Karl had his spats with Jerry too. Jerry had just enough energy to deal with it back then, now he didn't.

Nothing to see here. Move along.

 

[Hax0rs]

Deron Williams is the prime example of how the NBA has gone to ****, leaves me longing for the 90's when players had respect for each other and the team. I cant even watch this garbage outside the Jazz, bunch of prima donna cupcakes. Williams couldn't hold Stockton's jock.

 

[moevillini]

Truth is the Jazz rehired Sloan. Now they want to reinstate his reputation. In order to do this they call out DWill. It's not even bad for DWill, as he got blamed and called out by at least 50 ppl over the last season. So who cares?

Ha ha, I was just thinking that this thread could also be thought of as the night they "Re-signed" Sloan

 

[gomretat]

I agree with most of what you're saying, except this line. Not only do I not agree with it (see rebuilding era - 2000-2005, when Larry didn't always do what's best for the team, including but not limited to Milt Palacio, Raul Lopez, lack of free agency movement, AK Max contract), but I find it reprehensible that you use Larry as the "dead super owner" and then say someone's actions are "what he'd have done" in an attempt to add weight to your own view.

That's just bad juju bro. I won't neg you for it, but you might wanna think that path through again.

Anyone can use hindsight as a basis for not doing what was best for the organization. Add me the list of those that believe LHM always did what he thought was best long term for the Jazz and that Gail was simply doing the same thing. Not sure how that makes for bad juju, just the way it is.

 

[mellow]

Deron Williams is the prime example of how the NBA has gone to ****, leaves me longing for the 90's when players had respect for each other and the team (and they actually fought & played hard to beat the other guy rather than laying down or endlessly praising the other guy). I cant even watch this garbage outside the Jazz, bunch of prima donna cupcakes. Williams couldn't hold Stockton's jock.

I think the Doc Rivers depature is just the next progression in the NBA demise. The NBA owners, coaches, and players treat the fans like crap. They believe that they can do anything they want and the fans will still come. The arenas are not filling up, the revenue only expanded a little last season, and too many of the kids who grew up on Michael Jordan and Bird Vs Magic who are now in their prime earnings age did not stay with the NBA and are not coming back. The league is more about drama and theatre than it is about basketball and if there was anything else on TV the NBA would be screwed.

 

[zman1527]

"including the franchise’s aversion to change and Sloan’s minimal game-tape breakdown sessions."

Say what you will about Deron, but I think he is a smart b-ball man and a guy who really wants to win. His criticisms above hit home. This franchise is more interested in loyalty and continuity, aversion to change, than they are about winning. So they went with the in-house guy, Ty Corbin, with no track record whatsoever as a HC.

The lack of game-tape breakdown points to a common complaint here, the lack of in-game strategy and tactics with Sloan and now Corbin. Sloan always took a simple minded approach to the game, and often got his butt handed to him by better strategists like Pops and PhilJ. Yet the Jazz still put him on a pedestal and stick with his chosen one.

 

[Mongoose]

I think the Doc Rivers depature is just the next progression in the NBA demise. The NBA owners, coaches, and players treat the fans like crap. They believe that they can do anything they want and the fans will still come. The arenas are not filling up, the revenue only expanded a little last season, and too many of the kids who grew up on Michael Jordan and Bird Vs Magic who are now in their prime earnings age did not stay with the NBA and are not coming back. The league is more about drama and theatre than it is about basketball and if there was anything else on TV the NBA would be screwed.

^This... Lucky for me, I love hockey! I've been surprised with some of the Jazz reactions to fans in the last few years. It seems they are becoming more and more defensive and trying to indirectly place blame on the fans, it's like the league has animosity towards fans... It's a disconnect like you have in poorly managed companies between management and workers, but with the NBA it's between management and customers, because the product is ****.

 

[homeytennis]

Sloan and Phil Johnson ate dinner with the media as they always did before home games that night. Neither betrayed anything that there was trouble in paradise. Sloan did tell a Chicago beat writer that John Stockton only ran the wrong play once in his career. Deron I think ran the wrong play six times in the first half of the Chicago game. It's interesting that Johnson went over the side with Sloan. That to me shows loyalty because he was turning his back on a lot of money if he got the head coaching job.

 

[Harambe]

Anyone can use hindsight as a basis for not doing what was best for the organization. Add me the list of those that believe LHM always did what he thought was best long term for the Jazz and that Gail was simply doing the same thing. Not sure how that makes for bad juju, just the way it is.

The little things catch in my mind. Most of the time I don't even know why, and this is one of those situations. So I had to think about it for a second, and this is what I came up with.

In my mind, however shallow or deep that is, there's a line that's crossed when you say "Always did whats best" in place of "Always did what he thought was best". "Always best" implies it always worked out, and all was well, which further implies a degree of infallibility. Which is a lie, even if it's just an implied/inferred lie. In this situation, there was a lie told to bolster the view of one or more person(s), and because it was caught by even one person, they've now cheapened themselves, and the legacy of LHM, even if only just.

Do you see how I could view that as bad juju?

 

[zman1527]

Sloan and Phil Johnson ate dinner with the media as they always did before home games that night. Neither betrayed anything that there was trouble in paradise. Sloan did tell a Chicago beat writer that John Stockton only ran the wrong play once in his career. Deron I think ran the wrong play six times in the first half of the Chicago game. It's interesting that Johnson went over the side with Sloan. That to me shows loyalty because he was turning his back on a lot of money if he got the head coaching job.

But was his loyalty misplaced? Who was writing his large paychecks all those years? I strongly disagreed with Johnson resigning. At a minimum, he should have stayed on as head assistant to help Ty out. Remember how understaffed Ty was early on for assistants? (of course, that showed how ill-prepared he was too, shoulda had a list of asst coaches in his wallet for years). Phil should have really taken over as interim HC and allowed the Jazz to have a thorough review of candidates.

 

[homeytennis]

I think Phil not taking over shows how effed up the Jazz front office and management was, The best line I think I heard was on the Mike and Mike show on ESPN after the DWill trade and Sloans earlier resignation something to the effect that Jazz management used up all the toilet paper and then decided to take a dump.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

Deron Williams is the prime example of how the NBA has gone to ****, leaves me longing for the 90's when players had respect for each other and the team. I cant even watch this garbage outside the Jazz, bunch of prima donna cupcakes. Williams couldn't hold Stockton's jock.

Ah yes, the old 'back in the halcyon days of yore' gambit.

I'm guessing that disputes between players and coaches have been going on since the advent of organized athletics. I think we'd all be shocked if we knew what was going on behind the scenes at all these teams (e.g., Doc Rivers and Rondo almost getting into fights). But then, we shouldn't be surprised; after all we are dealing with humans, many of whom have large egos and/or have strong personalities and any number of personality flaws.

While there's a temptation to lay the blame on D-Will's feet, let's remember that Sloan, while an icon, is a far from perfect individual or coach and surely has his flaws also. We're hearing all of this now from people who might fairly be called Sloan sympathizers.

I don't know what happened, but just because Sloan is an icon and D-Will now has a 'reputation,' I'm not willing to assume automatically that the blame lies disproportionately on one side or the other.