The official: Rudy isn't max money.

[Release the Kraken]

Gobert is currently frustrated as he was at the start of the season. He wants more touches because he is tired of hearing that he is useless in offense.
His frustration leads to a lack of involvement in defense.

Mike Conley's return changes USG% and %FGA and destroyed the balance that had been found in december and january.
DM, Conley, Clarkson and Bogey tend to overplay to preserve their stats and ignore Gobert.

Do you even hear yourself right now? So you’re saying it’s fine for Rudy to blackmail the team into giving him touches by not playing any D if he doesn’t get them. He had four boards and one block last night in 31 minutes. Meanwhile a gassed Ibaka with little resistance had 13 boards and scored 27 on numerous open looks

 

[JazzyFresh]

Love Rudy but for a 7'2" inch guy who can dunk standing he is absolutely terrible at posting up even the smallest of players
not to mention even understanding positioning and how to catch a basketball. If he was even average at this he could make teams pay for going small but instead he makes it a major weakness.

While we're on the subject I'm not even sure Mitchell is worth the Max at this point. He's becoming CJ McCollum more and more by the day. Upper echelon but not top tier.

 

[David Ginola 14]

I agree, it is very limited offensively, also this year in defense it is making much more effort, without Crowder and Favos it is simple for the contenders to put it in difficulty by bringing it on the perimeter .. the supermax is not worth it, but it is not even the max value, I would not go over 25 million (already a lot), because otherwise with the Mitchell extension the cap will already be full ..

the thing that perplexes me is that on Twitter many see him as a top 10 in the League, it seems absurd to me ...

 

[LoPo]

While we're on the subject I'm not even sure Mitchell is worth the Max at this point. He's becoming CJ McCollum more and more by the day. Upper echelon but not top tier.

Mitchell is definitely worth the max but I agree not worth the super max Gobert is eligible for soon. I don't think many people realize all Mitchell has accomplished in less than 3 seasons. He has a comprehensive skill set and our team wins ball games with him as our offensive leader. With him at PG, our team seems even more successful.

He is maddening with the consistency issues at times, but I think he will sort those out better as he develops. The longer he plays, the more he will be able to get that added respect to get him to the line at times when he is forcing the issue.

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[Keefe]

Offering Gobert the super max would be dumb as ****.

Sign Udoh and save yourself 35 million a year.

 

[Jazzman12]

Add to all of this the fact that unless it’s an uncontested dunk, Rudy is extraordinarily bad when it comes to finishing at the rim. You can look at 5-6 instances from last night alone in which Rudy is within 2 feet of the basket with a smaller man on him and he couldn’t even come close to finishing.

I’d love to see it work with Rudy, but I don’t see how paying him anything close to supermax results in Utah being able to build a championship team.

 

[JimLes]

Goldfish memory spans around here. Rudy sets the modern NBA record for dunks in a season last year, but all of a sudden, he can't finish around the rim and our guards are doing everything possible but Rudy just sucks.

What is the difference between last season and this one?

 

[416Klawzz]

Goldfish memory spans around here. Rudy sets the modern NBA record for dunks in a season last year, but all of a sudden, he can't finish around the rim and our guards are doing everything possible but Rudy just sucks.

What is the difference between last season and this one?

The issue is he only has a 1 foot range from the basket. he can't post up , gets a euro step every once in awhile, not dependable offensively only for dunks or putbacks. he is restricted and a liability offensively in the clutch.

 

[JimLes]

The issue is he only has a 1 foot range from the basket. he can't post up , gets a euro step every once in awhile, not dependable offensively only for dunks or putbacks. he is restricted and a liability offensively in the clutch.

Again, last year, we were able to get him a ton of dunks. There's no shot easier than a dunk attempt by a 7'1 athletic beast. If the Jazz were able to get him that shot over and over last year, why in the world are they not doing it this year? In what universe are floaters by 6-foot guards a better option?

 

[416Klawzz]

Again, last year, we were able to get him a ton of dunks. There's no shot easier than a dunk attempt by a 7'1 athletic beast. If the Jazz were able to get him that shot over and over last year, why in the world are they not doing it this year? In what universe are floaters by 6-foot guards a better option?

the passes to Rudy are extremely challenging, I think we do it less because the opposing defenses can predict the entry pass and pick it off, perhaps that's the reason ?

 

[LoPo]

Goldfish memory spans around here. Rudy sets the modern NBA record for dunks in a season last year, but all of a sudden, he can't finish around the rim and our guards are doing everything possible but Rudy just sucks.

What is the difference between last season and this one?

Regular season, he tore it up last year. Come playoffs, Houston knew how to limit the lob finishing and limit his effect on the defensive end.

This season, many teams, especially the good ones, have adapted to lessen the Gobert effect. Its the evolution of basketball. Excellent offensive players always succeed but defenders, especially post players, can get isolated out and neutralized.

Gobert is a wonderful asset. A great player and a great dude. But we can't pay him 30%+ of our cap. That would be idiotic.

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[Keefe]

Lol at jimles

so Rudy is great but only if we can get him the ball so he can dunk it. That in and of itself should show us how limited he is.

 

[MilesDeep]

Gobert is worth the max! With the team as currently constructed, he's not worth the supermax because our interior passing and lob capabilities are well below average. You guys complain about his hands but most of the time the passes he misses are tipped or thrown way harder than necessary or they are thrown where there's multiple defenders at the reception/gather point, most would struggle with those. Mitchell and Conley suck at the lob and on the plays they should lob, about %80 they shoot. Clarkson and Bogey just don't pass, and Royce can't even dribble. Gobert should be frustrated, but there is no excuse for last nights performance. He had numerous plays where he could/should have made plays and just didn't, purposely. IMO, easily the worst game I've ever watched him play from a gaf standpoint. The problem is, he easily cares the most on the team about winning, besides last nights aberration. With his ability to change the game defensively, the fact you have to plan for him if your'e an opponent, his ability to set screens, and his incredible fg%, he's worth the max. It's on Quin to devise plans to get him easier looks, but right now the opportunities are there but our players suck at completing them. Anyone that thinks Donovan is worth the max right now just isn't watching close, or they have on thick homer glasses. He's selfish, frequently gets caught ball watching on defense for backdoor cuts or easy baskets, and has really limited court vision along with a pretty loose handle. Potential certainly is there but he's not maximizing it.

 

[LoPo]

Seriously, how can anybody think Donovan doesn't deserve a 2nd contract max? The guy is in his third year averaging 24+ppg, 4+apg, and 4+rpg.

There are not many players in the history of the league who have accomplished what he has in their first 3 years. He is inconsistent, but he is still our most important player by far. Regular season, it's debatable if Gobert is more important. In the playoffs, its not even close.

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[Eminence]

Rudy is not a great offensive player, that will always be a truth. Swapping from Rubio to Conley has meant our guards have absolutely sucked at getting it to him to optimize what little offense he has.

Defensively he's still a beast and has gotten basically no help on that end all season (shout out to Royce).

Is he worth the full max (is he eligible for it)? Ehh, probably not (he's one of those top 10-15 players who isn't worth as much as the real MVP guys, but is worth way more than just a normal Allstar too). If y'all really want to start another rebuild then I guess. Personally I'd try to retool in other areas while Mitchell is cheap (looking at you Mike Conley).

 

[oneye]

Gobert is worth the max! With the team as currently constructed, he's not worth the supermax because our interior passing and lob capabilities are well below average. You guys complain about his hands but most of the time the passes he misses are tipped or thrown way harder than necessary or they are thrown where there's multiple defenders at the reception/gather point, most would struggle with those. Mitchell and Conley suck at the lob and on the plays they should lob, about %80 they shoot. Clarkson and Bogey just don't pass, and Royce can't even dribble. Gobert should be frustrated, but there is no excuse for last nights performance. He had numerous plays where he could/should have made plays and just didn't, purposely. IMO, easily the worst game I've ever watched him play from a gaf standpoint. The problem is, he easily cares the most on the team about winning, besides last nights aberration. With his ability to change the game defensively, the fact you have to plan for him if your'e an opponent, his ability to set screens, and his incredible fg%, he's worth the max. It's on Quin to devise plans to get him easier looks, but right now the opportunities are there but our players suck at completing them. Anyone that thinks Donovan is worth the max right now just isn't watching close, or they have on thick homer glasses. He's selfish, frequently gets caught ball watching on defense for backdoor cuts or easy baskets, and has really limited court vision along with a pretty loose handle. Potential certainly is there but he's not maximizing it.

Saying Donovan isn’t worth the max pretty much throws out everything you have to say. He is 110% worth it. Don’t be stupid.

 

[mellow]

Rudy is worth the max to about 6 teams. Jazz are one of them, unless they want to go through another rebuild.

 

[LoPo]

Rudy is worth the max to about 6 teams. Jazz are one of them, unless they want to go through another rebuild.

If Gobert got us a good wing via trade, and then we signed a guy like Montrez Harrell, I dont believe we drop off that much. It's an overreaction to say losing Gobert means a rebuild.

If anything, trading Gobert retools for the long haul. The Lakers, Clippers, and Rockets are set for a few years and we need to be ready for the next wave with Memphis and Dallas.

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[LogGrad98]

Hardly any of the passes that go inside to him are crisp and clean/intended passes to him. They're desperation "OH S***" passes and of course he's going to fumble the ball under those circumstances.
You don't even realize the problem with the offense. When we played the Houston Rockets on Feb 22nd, they had traded Clint Capella and Rudy was being guarded by a guy 6'6 or under almost the entire game. He only shot 6 shots. Why!!!??? We had a mismatch the entire game but didn't have a strategy to get him the ball. We lost by 10 pts that game and we should've punished them. Rudy is not the problem.

You hit the nail on the head. No strategy. Quin keeps pounding the square peg into that round hole. He doesn't adapt well to what the other team is doing on a strategic level. Or if he has the plans he doesn't get his team to follow through. I think he might just be too much of a nice guy. For all us joking about how tough he looks, generally speaking the way a team plays is dictated by the coach, and his team doesn't play hard.

Sloan was tough, so his teams were tough. Corbin was clueless, and his teams often played that way. Pop is smart and driven, his teams play smart and driven.

Quin's team is soft and doesn't adapt. What does that say about Quin?

 

[LogGrad98]

Goldfish memory spans around here. Rudy sets the modern NBA record for dunks in a season last year, but all of a sudden, he can't finish around the rim and our guards are doing everything possible but Rudy just sucks.

What is the difference between last season and this one?

Conley.