The price is right!

[LogGrad98]

how about let the market decide

these deciding factos count.

the supply and demand of workers. and then the productive worth of the worker.

supply demand is first. then comes prodcutive value. by productive value(don't know if the right English word) i mean:

a guy flipping burgers and hour might flip 200 burgers(just a number i picked), those 200 burgers give you revenue of lets say 5 dollars a pop so one guy gives u a revenue of 1000 dollar. (simplified of course).
but lets say a burger joint with 10 people(also cashiers etc) give you a revenue of 10.000 dollar. so their combined salary should be somewhere between 0 and X( x being 10.000 minus operating cost and profit!)

now lets say we have a oil platform run by 10 people(yes just random numbers) but those 10 people give you a revenue of 100.000 dollar per hours. lets face it that's just reality oil drilling platform gives you more revenue than burger joint. so those people salary will be higher someweher between 0 and y(y being 10.000 minus operating cost and profit)


also that's why NBA players get paid so much, they give you more revenue.

the supply demand part is tricky i mean if their are 3000 people wanting the job and there are only 10 places. they are outbidding themselves! so production value does not come into play!

so we should promote production and business. if you have production, people get paid according to their production value. if their is a lack of work, then burger joints are straight outta luck because they cant outbid certain fields, so then burger joint become what they are meant to be. part-time jobs for students and low skilled workers while getting a education on doing skilled work.

so screw your poll

so even though i like to vote on this poll there is no real option!

people will call me crazy and idiotic. maybe they are just close minded or my English is BAD!

I think you misunderstood the poll.

 

[DutchJazzer]

I think you misunderstood the poll.

you are right! sorry about that, sometimes i am just a retard por according to some i am always a retard.

sorry bout that, i just kinda am sick of this "minimum wage" stuff, and i saw this as an opportunity to go on my rant about salary!


please consider my previous message as unwritten, lets save it for the inevitable minimum wage and wage gap thread that is coming in the future!

 

[JAZZGASM]

I don't make much money at all and don't have much money but I have always lived debt free cause I just don't spend more than I have. It's simple really.

I actually recently did something way out of the ordinary for me and bought a brand new siverado (only had 5 miles on it). But even then I put $21000 down (I got 15000 on my xterra trade in. It was paid off) so I only borrowed about 17000. Then I have been paying at least 1000 per month every month since then (this month I get a yearly work bonus and tax returns so I'm paying 4000 on it in march) and so now I only owe 9000. I bought the truck at the end of october.

I'm going to sell my pop up trailer for 5000 and put that money on the truck too.

I figure I will have my truck paid off around August and it will only have about 5000 miles on it.
I only bought the truck cause I knew I was going to be getting a lot of overtime for the next 6 months or so.

My wife's car is pretty new too and it's paid off.

My mortgage is really low and affordable and I have about 130,000 dollars in equity on it. (Only owe about 120,000 dollars on the house. )

No credit card bills. No other debt whatsoever.

And again, I don't make much money (about 50,000 per year) and my wife doesn't work or make any money. We are just smart about how we spend the little money we do have.

But are you investing too? If not, consider financing more low interest debt so you can invest more heavily.

Investing early and often is the best way to secure a good retirement.

 

[DutchJazzer]

But are you investing too? If not, consider financing more low interest debt so you can invest more heavily.

Investing early and often is the best way to secure a good retirement.

maybe invest in some land, then jsut farm the **** out of it. then as retirement you can sit on your porch and harvest fruits

 

[NAOS]

But are you investing too? If not, consider financing more low interest debt so you can invest more heavily.

Investing early and often is the best way to secure a good retirement.

^straight-forward words that relate to what I was saying. If you aren't comfortable leveraging debt in smart ways -- because it's debt -- then you are getting dominated by moral views of money.

Paying off a truck (a declining asset) with, what, a 3% rate these days VS investing that liquidity in appreciating assets. You decide.

 

[b_line]

I just started investing in a Roth ira for the first time. I'm kind of obsessed. I should have been investing sooner, but I couldn't stand being in debt.

 

[JAZZGASM]

I just started investing in a Roth ira for the first time. I'm kind of obsessed. I should have been investing sooner, but I couldn't stand being in debt.

I invested in a David Lee Roth and lost everything.

 

[Revolution 9]

About 35-40% more to really feel it.

 

[franklin]

^straight-forward words that relate to what I was saying. If you aren't comfortable leveraging debt in smart ways -- because it's debt -- then you are getting dominated by moral views of money.

Agreed, but...

Paying off a truck (a declining asset) with, what, a 3% rate these days VS investing that liquidity in appreciating assets. You decide.

You're discounting the value of cash flow and security. If you are out of debt and have cash in the bank then you can load up on your retirement account without worry of catastrophe bankrupting you fast.

 

[JAZZGASM]

Agreed, but...



You're discounting the value of cash flow and security. If you are out of debt and have cash in the bank then you can load up on your retirement account without worry of catastrophe bankrupting you fast.

In order to avoid a catastrophic incident bankrupting you, the FIRST thing you should do is max out your retirement accounts. Retirement assets are secure, and creditors can't touch them, even in bankruptcy.

I also recommend you:

1) Max out your Roth IRA--You can take out the original investment without penalty if you need to.
2) Invest as much in pre-tax retirement as you can afford. Know that you can take it out early, but will have a 10% penalty. If you get a decent rate of return, the gains attributable to the deferred tax can largely negate the penalty.
3) With any additional capital available, invest in non-retirement funds with a good mix of liquid and illiquid assets. I like to invest heavily in real estate, but I do a large chunk of it through a holding company where I can sell quickly if I need cash.

The other think to keep in mind, is that retirement assets are secure, and creditors can't touch them, even in bankruptcy.

 

[franklin]

In order to avoid a catastrophic incident bankrupting you, the FIRST thing you should do is max out your retirement accounts. Retirement assets are secure, and creditors can't touch them, even in bankruptcy.

The other think to keep in mind, is that retirement assets are secure, and creditors can't touch them, even in bankruptcy.

That's the obvious response, and I considered putting it in my response to get it out of the way. The problem is, on the flip side, your house is usually your major asset. Debt + lost job = no more house.

 

[JAZZGASM]

That's the obvious response, and I considered putting it in my response to get it out of the way. The problem is, on the flip side, your house is usually your major asset. Debt + lost job = no more house.

I guess the point is if you are investing instead of paying off debt, you are in at least the same position theoretically, and hopefully much better because you have had good gains on your investments. Even with large losses in 08-09, my rate of return has been many multiples of 3%. Of course if you invest poorly, or the market completely crashes, that is another story.

So a paid off $30k car (depreciating asset) with $0 investments is no better, and likely worse than a financed car with $30k invested gaining a return.

If you lose your job, you risk losing your house regardless. If your car is paid off, you can sell your depreciating asset for a loss under scenario 1 to pay for your house, or withdraw from your appreciating investments under scenario 2.

How about other scenarios? You get sued for $1M when a tree in your yard falls on someone. Your business with personal guarantees fails? Etc... Some states have homestead exceptions to allow you to keep your home. Many do not. Your retirement account would be protected. Retirement accounts are protected from everything except IRS taxes and Qualified Domestic Relations Orders.

I'd put my house in a retirement plan if ERISA allowed me to.