The results of loosening gun restrictions
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I appreciate the response, OB.
I've had two paradigm shifts in my life. The first was "abandoning" my belief in a higher power and becoming an Atheist. I did this after 20 or so years of being brought up Roman Catholic. The second was changing my stance on gun rights and gun ownership. I never had any sort of interaction with guns when I was younger or even in my teenage years but what changed my mind or what helped change my mind was my deciding on where I was going to draw my morality from now that I was an Atheist. I still follow the teachings of Jesus -- how could you not? He's hard to argue against -- but I also looked to our Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. The concept of first principle and inalienable rights made me think long and hard about gun rights and how this affected the right to life and the right to freedom and liberty.
Anyway, reaching certain personal conclusions, I started reading whatever I could in regards to firearm ownership and safety. Massad Ayoob's In The Gravest Extreme was the game changer for me. Also, over the years, I read material from both sides of the argument and have always come to the conclusion that the right to keep and bear arms was deemed necessary by our forefather's for reasons of first principle. Furthermore, I do not think it was a coincidence that it was the 2nd amendment and came directly after language describing the ideas of a free society.
In regards to your "current line of thinking," while you may want that to be the case, it's not. Driving a car, though this can be debated, is a privilege afforded to you by the state and not a right given to you by the supreme law of the land as the right to bear arms truly is.
There should be restrictions, sure, and many of them I agree with but the idea that we can send our 18 year olds to fight in a foreign land for, presumably, the rights of others, but not allow them the right to defend themselves in their own country seems ill formed. Also, someone who gets two convictions as a result of using marijuana but has no violent crime record still deserves the right to defend themselves in my opinion.
Reaffirming my position was just using common sense when reading news stories dealing gun issues.
Your opening paragraph referenced this common idea that gun owners are fearful or worried but yet these same adjectives are never used on people who regularly use their seat belts or wear cycling helmets. For instance, I don't wear my seat belt or cycling helmet because I'm worried or fearful of crashing or falling every time I drive my car or ride my bicycle, I wear them just in case. Examples of defensive gun use are plenty and happen everyday in this country. They're their if you want to see them.
It doesn't become part of the equation because the initial knee jerk reaction is what's wanted not thought based in common sense.
While the Supreme Court recently ruled otherwise, I remain of the opinion that the first clause of the Second Amendment was intended to describe the scope of that right, as opposed to being background static.
What's a few extra bodies along the way, right?
Odd, I regularly hear this, although perhaps phrased differently. "Watch out for other drivers". "People here don't know how to drive on snow". "Drive defensively". These are all fear-based messages. The difference is that wearing a seat belt does not make it more likely to be in a car accident; owning a gun does make fatal accidents more common.
If they are so prevalent, you should be able to find studies where you go into the same neighborhood, look at the crime statistics comparing gun owners in that neighborhood with non-gun owners, do this over a wide number of neighborhoods, and show a trend that the gun owners are safer. Organizations like the CDC would be well-suited for this task. Wouldn't it be nice to have actual science to back up either side of this discussion? However, they are not allowed to, because organizations like the NRA have pushed for, and gotten passed, laws that prevent the CDC from collecting these types of statistics.They seem to feel it's in their favor to not have these studies done. Why do you think that is?
I read some descriptions of the book you mentioned, and it seems to be a how-to-carry, as opposed to being an argument for carrying. If I ever actually carry a gun, I'll look into it.
LogGrad98
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Did it ever occur to anyone that once intelligence developed "survival of the fittest" devolved into who had the better weapons? Maybe this is Darwinianism in action, and we should simply issue guns to everyone and when the smoke clears whoever is left are the "naturally selected" ones who earned the right to procreate by having the most advanced abilities to use weapons, which weapons are merely a result of evolution to begin with.
PearlWatson
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I'm sick of all you gunophobes. I'm for gun ownership rights. No discrimination between gun owners. State restrictions are unconstitutional. 14th amendment--->Equal protection under the law. Those on psychotropic drugs or violent criminal history have just as much right to protect themselves from each other as the rest of us have from them.
DutchJazzer
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1. Im not sure Im completely understanding your comment regarding the few extra bodies. If you can point me in the direction of studies showing some sort of correlation between gun violence and pot smoking and I'll be more than happy to take a look at them. Unless, of course, I'm missing what you're saying.
2. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree in regards to our perception of what emotions certain phrases are rooted in. Again, just in case I didn't make my point before, I don't wear a seat belt or a cycling helmet because I expect to get into an accident. As a gun owner, I hope I am never put in the situation of having to take someone else's life. I hope I never have to make that split second decision of the worst possible kind. Do you believe owning a car makes it more likely that you would get into a car accident?
3. I do not support the NRA. They do not speak for me as a gun owner. They are fear mongers and prey on emotion rather than reality. The ironic part is that they along with the anti-gun liberals paint a landscape of violence and that crime is getting worse and worse...both to add foundations to their respective outlooks. The reality is that it is safer now than it has been in decades. One only needs to look to the FBI's statistical abstracts to confirm this. And this is happened while gun ownership has gone up...well, the highest it's been since the early 90's.
Take Los Angeles for instance. Violent crime is down for the 11th straight year and, per capita, as low as it's been since the 1950's and 60's. All this is happening while 200 guns a day are being applied for and sold in LA.
https://www.scpr.org/news/2014/01/13/41574/lapd-crime-in-los-angeles-down-for-the-11th-straig/
https://www.dailynews.com/general-news/20130213/los-angeles-residents-buying-200-guns-a-day
So, again, while specific studies are not out there, there are reports that can be referenced and that one can draw conclusions from.
As far as defensive gun use goes, again, there are examples happening every day:
Just this week:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpv9tJwjmAk
https://www.winknews.com/Lights-Sir...stop-attack-on-pregnant-daughter#.Uwg2v_RdV8k
https://www.stategazette.com/story/2052865.html
https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local...avana-Supermarket-Miami-Police-246263051.html
https://washington.cbslocal.com/2014/02/19/man-shot-breaking-into-business-in-beltsville/
All over this country, there are scenarios of defensive gun use happening. Every day. Every year. Many times, these scenarios are not reported because no crime has been committed. The gun itself was deterrent enough.
1. I'm not sure if there are studies about pot, specifically. Are you saying that pot convictions should be treated differently from alcohol or cocaine convictions?
2. Fear can be mild, subtle, and measured. Protecting yourself against risk is a reaction to fear.
3. I agree it is safer than it has been in decades. Most crime are committed by young adults (you can track the rise and fall across decades), and our population is aging. That's not a response to whether homes with guns are safer overall.
I accept that there are plenty of anecdotes of people defending themselves with guns. There are plenty of anecdotes of accidental shootings, wrongful shootings, etc., as well. Do answer the question of which has greater effect, you would need to do a systemic study, one of the type the CDC is prevented from doing by law.
1. Sorry, I'm not trying to be obtuse, but I don't get the point you're trying to make regarding marijuana use or drug use and gun use. I know earlier you said you'd want to deny people their consitutional right to a firearm if they were convicted of a drug charge? Right? Or did I not understand you?
2. I still disagree. I cycle a lot. I know that part of cycling is falling down. I mean, I know at some point I am going to fall...again. I have before. I'm not scared or fearful of falling because I know it's an inevitbaility. I just want my noggin protected. In regards to keeping armed, I know the chances of ever having to fire in self defense are pretty low but I want to be prepared. This conscious decision is not based in fear. Is there a chance that maybe your own outlook on life and the risks within it color your viewpoint?
3. That's definitely an argument to look at. That said, do you think our population aging is enough of a factor to effect the falling violent crime percentages?