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The West Conundrum

Saint Cy of JFC said:
Also it might be mind of a stretch to say we improved cuz we drafted a bunch of rookies and added a player who has gotten worse every year.

What's better to have for immediate wins: Malik Beasley, Jared Vanderbilt, and Mike Conley or who we just added?

If the Jazz got better it's primarily because of internal improvement (Lauri making another leap, big 2nd year from Walker, THT being consistent , Sexton staying healthy, Fonteccio getting comfortable, Ochai growing into his role) or Collins really improving outside of Atlanta.
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I think the jazz got better by not tanking. Sitting healthy players and trying to get worse via trades wont happen this next season imo. That and internal improvement (Hardy more comfortable and the team being more comfortable with the system and each other) is why we should be better imo. Not necessarily because we have a more talented roster.
 
If everyone has better talent then everyone wins, right?

No, talent alone won't do it. Elite talent maybe, but I don't think even Wemby will dominate anymore. It's talent + experience + coaching + organizational strengths that will win.
 
whatthe said:
If everyone has better talent then everyone wins, right?

No, talent alone won't do it. Elite talent maybe, but I don't think even Wemby will dominate anymore. It's talent + experience + coaching + organizational strengths that will win.
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Yup, comes down to chemistry and health. How quickly you can start out the gate.

I dont buy the "we wont tank again" thing as a being a big deal. I think a lot of the NBA wont tank (at least not as hard) this year. For instance, I dont think Houston is going to sit FVV and Brooks after giving them huge bags.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Yup, comes down to chemistry and health. How quickly you can start out the gate.

I dont buy the "we wont tank again" thing as a being a big deal. I think a lot of the NBA wont tank (at least not as hard) this year. For instance, I dont think Houston is going to sit FVV and Brooks after giving them huge bags.
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Yeah the draft class of 2024 doesnt inspire much tanking based on early assessments... which makes the West situation even more interesting.

The geriatric teams (Warriors, Clippers and Lakers) current iterations are drawing their last breaths anyways within the next few years, but next year thry are still in the tryhards category along with 11 others.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Also it might be mind of a stretch to say we improved cuz we drafted a bunch of rookies and added a player who has gotten worse every year.

What's better to have for immediate wins: Malik Beasley, Jared Vanderbilt, and Mike Conley or who we just added?

If the Jazz got better it's primarily because of internal improvement (Lauri making another leap, big 2nd year from Walker, THT being consistent , Sexton staying healthy, Fonteccio getting comfortable, Ochai growing into his role) or Collins really improving outside of Atlanta.
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Lets not forget last years team was put together with duct tape less than 2 months before season began.

Kessler playing 30MPG on the same level he averaged per 36 and Lauri being the "first option" version of himself with nearly 30/9 stats alone are massive upgrades from where we started last year.

Not to mention Hardy was learning on the job and players were learning his system on the go.

Lots of reasons to believe we are much better now than 12 months ago, even without accounting for Collins or the rookies.
 
HermanG said:
Lets not forget last years team was put together with duct tape less than 2 months before season began.

Kessler playing 30MPG on the same level he averaged per 36 and Lauri being the "first option" version of himself with nearly 30/9 stats alone are massive upgrades from where we started last year.

Not to mention Hardy was learning on the job and players were learning his system on the go.

Lots of reasons to believe we are much better now than 12 months ago, even without accounting for Collins or the rookies.
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Brother read what you quoted.
 
HermanG said:
??

Oh I see... Because I didnt contradict or argue anything in your post you felt that was a broken reply.

You know its possible to reply without contradicting. It even has a name... its called "a conversation". Nice skill, highly recommend learning it.
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A conversation usually involves responding to what the person said, not repeating exactly what I said.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
A conversation usually involves responding to what the person said, not repeating exactly what I said.
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You said "its a stretch to say we improved" I said "we are definitely improved".

You talked about next year improvement and new leaps, I talked about holding end of the year status quo.

You pointed out the players lost in LA trade while I didnt even discuss that and brought up Hardy instead.

But other than those it was basically the same post.
 
The west looks pretty rough on paper, but this has always been my take on the NBA and probably always will be:

If you’re a team like the Jazz that has decent to-good-level talent, and you go out every night actually trying to win and compete, you’re gonna find some wins. Looking at the Jazz talent on paper, that team should be able to .500 just off of effort. There’s gonna be a lot of nights that team like the Lakers, Suns, and Golden State are resting their stars or their big name players are “injured”.
 
HermanG said:
Can all these things be simultaneously true?
  • Spurs improve their record after adding Wemby
  • Rockets improve after adding FVV+Brooks+Amen+Cam
  • Jazz improve after adding Collins, Keyonte, Hendricks and Sensabaugh (and also by not tanking the rest of the way next season)
  • OKC improve after adding Chet and Wallace
  • Lakers improve after all their applauded offseason moves
  • Suns improve after adding Beal (plus Durant wasnt there full year)
  • Nuggets stay as class of the conference
Thats 7 of the 15 teams in the West who are very realistically expected to improve or hold their record. The only one we really expect to fall right now are Blazers, but they already finished bottom 3 in the West last year so its not like they can "make much room" for those on the rise.

Even if you dismiss 1 or 2 from that list being true it still raises this question:
Where does that leave the other teams... Grizzlies, Kings, Clippers, Warriors, Wolves, Pels and Mavs?

All those teams have expectations attached to them, and apart from maybe Grizzlies and Kings the rest of them have some major future concerns going forward if they fall to make way for the teams on the rise. So the question is:
Who or what gives in?
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The western conference is going to be brutal for all teams. Jazz could win more games and miss the playoffs or get in play in.
 
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