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This franchise doesn't want to win a title

Well, that's convenient. Just as a base argument and viewpoint.

The Spurs, yes, are champions.
But as to whether that proves Duncan and Robinson were superior to Malone and Stockton...well, I think the extrapolated logic dictates that you then believe that the former beat a 69-win Bulls team, while the latter lose to a Nets team that didn't even win 50 enroute.

So far as Robinson as a star player...he is one of the most ridiculous outliers for playoff failure I've ever analyzed. Losing? Okay. But it's the fact that the losses, in his prime and at his peak, so closely align with matchup meltdowns. This is known in regards to Hakeem, but the fact is that the much-maligned Karl Malone owned this guy over the course of 90s playoff basketball. Just decimated him, on both sides of the ball. Which is quite something, considering how much, for instance, Robinson's D is hyped to this day; in a man context (as opposed to...), I would argue very strongly that Malone was superior to Robinson there, as well.

All I pointed out was that the thread is about winning a championship and the organization's commitment to do so. So yes that is the argument and viewpoint in the context of the thread (highlighted in bold). Sorry to bring logic into your very emotional response.

If you would like to discuss largely arbitrary ranking as to "who owned whom" in various aspects of the game then feel free to start said thread. But to frame other posters comments in such a way as to fit your argument is just a straw man.

The Spurs have won championships, and we have not. They had Duncan and Robinson for part of that and others after Robinson left. And we had Stockton and Malone. The team the Spurs put together that won championships worked, our efforts did not. So in terms of winning championships TD+DR > JS+KM. Pretty straight forward.

Now going from the position of career accolades and head to head matchups you could really make a case that the reverse is true. Say, why don't you go ahead and do some research and start that kind of thread with some numbers and such to back your viewpoint and we can rip it apart then.

Mmmkay?
 
As I write this, the Jazz are getting blown out in Boston.

Oh, and about Wesley Matthews last night...

28 pts. 3 rebs. 5 asts. 3 stls. (10-18 fg 4-4 ft 4-8 3fg)
 
All I pointed out was that the thread is about winning a championship and the organization's commitment to do so.

Yeah.

If it's about management, then leave it there. Don't blame the star players for that same management's ineptitude.

It seems that your too inept to, ironically, follow what this thread was about, even while trying to turn that same issue into pedagogic polemic. What an embarrassment especially since, as you pointed out, it was such a simple topic.

If team result is the only measure for a player, then perhaps Robert Horry>Jordan.

So yes that is the argument and viewpoint in the context of the thread (highlighted in bold). Sorry to bring logic into your very emotional response.

As far as I know, it was your lacking logic I was very directly replying to. Reading comprehension may help, as redundancy is becoming squared with (attempted) condescension from your side; by missing my point, the question becomes whether you've then missed your own.

Specifically, the reductive, as reductio ad absurdum, assumption that TD+DR>JS+KM because of championships.

By that reasoning, Chauncey Billups>John Stockton.

If you would like to discuss largely arbitrary ranking as to "who owned whom" in various aspects of the game then feel free to start said thread.

Arbitrary? Do you understand what that means, particularly when discussing individual players?

Conspicuously, you judge the worth of star players -- their overall skill and ability to effect a game -- through team result. The argument is contradictory, myopic and, in total, an oxymoron.

Meanwhile, you think that matchup battles, favoring one player to a ridiculous degree over another, are..."arbitrary".

Congratulations. You've shown the analytical ability of a bandwagoner attending a game 7 at Staples Center.

But to frame other posters comments in such a way as to fit your argument is just a straw man.

So individual greatness is beside the point.

OK. Then, by your own stated and implied standard, that then means that Luc Longley>>David Robinson.

Any other analysis would be both a strawman and emotionally capricious.

By having me argue within your, yes, convenient and capricious standards, it only becomes more obvious how ill-thought and implosive these elements are.

So, bravo.

The Spurs have won championships, and we have not.

Ginobli+Parker>David Robinson.

They had Duncan and Robinson for part of that and others after Robinson left. And we had Stockton and Malone. The team the Spurs put together that won championships worked, our efforts did not.

Note the bold. Still confused?
 
Yeah.

If it's about management, then leave it there. Don't blame the star players for that same management's ineptitude.

It seems that your too inept to, ironically, follow what this thread was about, even while trying to turn that same issue into pedagogic polemic. What an embarrassment especially since, as you pointed out, it was such a simple topic.

If team result is the only measure for a player, then perhaps Robert Horry>Jordan.



As far as I know, it was your lacking logic I was very directly replying to. Reading comprehension may help, as redundancy is becoming squared with (attempted) condescension from your side; by missing my point, the question becomes whether you've then missed your own.

Specifically, the reductive, as reductio ad absurdum, assumption that TD+DR>JS+KM because of championships.

By that reasoning, Chauncey Billups>John Stockton.



Arbitrary? Do you understand what that means, particularly when discussing individual players?

Conspicuously, you judge the worth of star players -- their overall skill and ability to effect a game -- through team result. The argument is contradictory, myopic and, in total, an oxymoron.

Meanwhile, you think that matchup battles, favoring one player to a ridiculous degree over another, are..."arbitrary".

Congratulations. You've shown the analytical ability of a bandwagoner attending a game 7 at Staples Center.



So individual greatness is beside the point.

OK. Then, by your own stated and implied standard, that then means that Luc Longley>>David Robinson.

Any other analysis would be both a strawman and emotionally capricious.

By having me argue within your, yes, convenient and capricious standards, it only becomes more obvious how ill-thought and implosive these elements are.

So, bravo.



Ginobli+Parker>David Robinson.



Note the bold. Still confused?



can i have my thesaurus back?
 
Yeah.

If it's about management, then leave it there. Don't blame the star players for that same management's ineptitude.

It seems that your too inept to, ironically, follow what this thread was about, even while trying to turn that same issue into pedagogic polemic. What an embarrassment especially since, as you pointed out, it was such a simple topic.

If team result is the only measure for a player, then perhaps Robert Horry>Jordan.



As far as I know, it was your lacking logic I was very directly replying to. Reading comprehension may help, as redundancy is becoming squared with (attempted) condescension from your side; by missing my point, the question becomes whether you've then missed your own.

Specifically, the reductive, as reductio ad absurdum, assumption that TD+DR>JS+KM because of championships.

By that reasoning, Chauncey Billups>John Stockton.



Arbitrary? Do you understand what that means, particularly when discussing individual players?

Conspicuously, you judge the worth of star players -- their overall skill and ability to effect a game -- through team result. The argument is contradictory, myopic and, in total, an oxymoron.

Meanwhile, you think that matchup battles, favoring one player to a ridiculous degree over another, are..."arbitrary".

Congratulations. You've shown the analytical ability of a bandwagoner attending a game 7 at Staples Center.



So individual greatness is beside the point.

OK. Then, by your own stated and implied standard, that then means that Luc Longley>>David Robinson.

Any other analysis would be both a strawman and emotionally capricious.

By having me argue within your, yes, convenient and capricious standards, it only becomes more obvious how ill-thought and implosive these elements are.

So, bravo.



Ginobli+Parker>David Robinson.



Note the bold. Still confused?

So do you have an actual argument or just personal attacks?
 
All I pointed out was that the thread is about winning a championship and the organization's commitment to do so. So yes that is the argument and viewpoint in the context of the thread (highlighted in bold). Sorry to bring logic into your very emotional response.

If you would like to discuss largely arbitrary ranking as to "who owned whom" in various aspects of the game then feel free to start said thread. But to frame other posters comments in such a way as to fit your argument is just a straw man.

Now going from the position of career accolades and head to head matchups you could really make a case that the reverse is true. Say, why don't you go ahead and do some research and start that kind of thread with some numbers and such to back your viewpoint and we can rip it apart then.

Mmmkay?

Yeah.

If team result is the only measure for a player, then perhaps Robert Horry>Jordan.

Specifically, the reductive, as reductio ad absurdum, assumption that TD+DR>JS+KM because of championships.

By that reasoning, Chauncey Billups>John Stockton.

Arbitrary? Do you understand what that means, particularly when discussing individual players?

Conspicuously, you judge the worth of star players -- their overall skill and ability to effect a game -- through team result. The argument is contradictory, myopic and, in total, an oxymoron.

Meanwhile, you think that matchup battles, favoring one player to a ridiculous degree over another, are..."arbitrary".

Congratulations. You've shown the analytical ability of a bandwagoner attending a game 7 at Staples Center.

So individual greatness is beside the point.

OK. Then, by your own stated and implied standard, that then means that Luc Longley>>David Robinson.

Any other analysis would be both a strawman and emotionally capricious.

By having me argue within your, yes, convenient and capricious standards, it only becomes more obvious how ill-thought and implosive these elements are.

So, bravo.

Ginobli+Parker>David Robinson.

Note the bold. Still confused?

You do realize that you supported my argument right? Framed in the context of the discussion, as I stated before. Then I state that individual accolades can be discussed separately since they were not part of the thread, which is about winning championships. Then I state that by individual accolades you could make a case for the revers. Then you go on to put words in my mouth (re: bold above) and build an argument against things I never said or even implied, since I kept to the context (Spurs vs. Jazz and TD,DV vs. KM, JS in terms of championships won) and you did not.

Broadening the argument beyond what the other person has said and putting words in their mouth to then argue against, that is the very definition of a straw man.

Oh nevermind, if you don't understand context and rational thought you will never get it.
 
simple...

someone made a post, and somebody else didn't understand it

I think that happens frequently around here...
and not just to me - - or with my posts!

;-)

Uh...I don't get it. ;)


That is the truest post in this thread, maybe on this board.
 
another blow out loss

Just watched the Jazz get blown out again by the Lakers...

Raja Bell shot 1-7 from the field for 2 points.

Meanwhile, Wesley Matthews, whom the Jazz owner didn't want to pay even the mid-level exception of $6 million a year, is a strong candidate for Most Improved Player averaging 16.2 points per game and doing a great job for Portland.

This isn't a hating on Raja Bell thread, but a thread about Jazz ownership never wanting to spend the money necessary to make the Jazz a championship team.

Jazz ownership is content with the Jazz being KO'd in the first round of the playoffs, so long as Energy Solutions is selling out, the franchise is turning a profit, and he's not paying the luxury tax.
 
Just watched the Jazz get blown out again by the Lakers...

Raja Bell shot 1-7 from the field for 2 points.

Meanwhile, Wesley Matthews, whom the Jazz owner didn't want to pay even the mid-level exception of $6 million a year, is a strong candidate for Most Improved Player averaging 16.2 points per game and doing a great job for Portland.

This isn't a hating on Raja Bell thread, but a thread about Jazz ownership never wanting to spend the money necessary to make the Jazz a championship team.

Jazz ownership is content with the Jazz being KO'd in the first round of the playoffs, so long as Energy Solutions is selling out, the franchise is turning a profit, and he's not paying the luxury tax.

Please. Nobody in the league thought that the Matthews contract was good at the time of signing. NOBODY.
 
Please. Nobody in the league thought that the Matthews contract was good at the time of signing. NOBODY.

Um, Portland did. Looks like they were the smart ones.
 
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