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This is a loss.

bigb said:
While this is still true, I think it’s becoming less of an automatic. As the newest generations come of age, I’m seeing them become more progressive. My kids, while still young, are a little more left than I am. I’m a little more left of my parents. Don’t get me wrong, I still tend to lean more right than left, but not as much as generations before me. I am a die hard BYU fan and I love funeral potatoes, but I can’t stand jello with carrot shavings. I’m certainly not a Republican, but vote that way more than not (and certainly not in the last two presidential elections).


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Yeah, it really seems like there are two factions of mormons right now: the old and the young. And each have very different belief systems. It is very facinating to watch. That being said, I'm a firm believer that our kids are better than we are. That is a special generation. I'm proud of them and how they seem more interested in building bridges and working together than being right.

One of my favorite sayings is, "I don't want to be right, I want to get it right." And the young 'uns really seem like they are headed in a special direction. They gonna get us to some Star Trek type **** here in the next 100 years.
 
I think there's a lot to analyze here.

1. The segregation of our country. We've been polarizing our society since the mid 1960s. Even within states you see deep polarization.

2. At the same time we're seeing segregation in our country, we're seeing communities formed online that are nothing more than echo chambers for their preferred media and tribe. These echo chambers make one impervious to facts and radicalizes them. Qanon is a perfect example of this. People are creating their own communities online with its total effect on our democracy completely unknown.

3. The way we communicate, inform, and educate. The advent of the radio changed the way we communicated, were informed, and educated. The TV has had an even greater effect. No longer do we value information, only style. Remember how the NY Times reported that impeachment lacked the "Pizzazz" to hold our attention? TV media doesn't inform voters, but turns politics into a sport that is either won or lost. TV and social media is inhibiting the ways we communicate and retarding the way we think, articulate arguments, and otherwise make public discourse.

To borrow from the book, "Amusing ourselves to death" Orwell wrote about a society where information was carefully censored. The truth was kept from the masses. Huxley wrote about a society where information was flooded (most of it garbage) and the truth was indecipherable from fiction.

I think this is a real issue. After 4 years of this hell, million still think, "Hells yeah, I want 4 more years of this! Cry more lib!"

Perhaps we've reached the extent of liberal democracy? Perhaps we're actually on the long downslope towards oligarchy and authoritarianism? Have we ever thought about that? That our liberal democracy all the progress we've made, maybe gay marriage or the Civil Rights Act ( and the Great Society) was the pinnacle of what's possible for democracy in this county? Do societies ever known when their democracy has peaked and now backslide? Did Germany know back in 1932? Did Russia know back in the early 1990s? Will we? Western democracies all around appear to be backsliding, progress has halted. From the UK, to France, to the United States. Progress has halted in many of these democracies. Is this a speedbump or the start of something very sad?
 
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green said:
I don't aree with mormonism...but god damn I love their cheesy potatoes. My wife makes them for us Black Friday and keeps em coming until Christmas Day. I love this time of year.
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Pair those with some honey baked ham... Christmas was funeral potatoes and honey baked ham back in the day. I could eat that for a week straight.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Pair those with some honey baked ham...
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Never mind all the politics, THIS is what's wrong with America and what will bring you all to ruin. Why the **** would you bake or boil ham instead of smoking and curing it? It blows my mind.

I was in staying in Phoenix metro and could not believe the paucity of proper cured meats(salumeria, if you will) at grocery stores. Your choice of cold cuts was turkey, cooked ham, or something called salami that most definitely isn't salami. The Walmart down the street from me has prosciutto, copa, Genoa and Calabrese salami, sopressata, serrano, and all sorts of other stuff along those lines. Walmart! I won't even get to the deli section at the Italian market in Calgary or Edmonton.

You couldn't pay me to eat ham if the pig was alive a year ago.
 
Gameface said:
I don't care who wins. This is a loss.

The U.S. has shown who they (we) are.

We're the nation that started with slavery. We're the nation that didn't let women vote. We're the nation that slaughtered indigenous people. We're the nation that propped up dictators and fascists all around the world. We're the nation that when black people said that their live matter we said "you're blocking our streets, therefore we're justified to kill you."

When we have an opportunity to say "that's not who we are" we basically say "okay, that's is actually who we are."

We're not special. The United States is not special. There is nothing here that can't be had somewhere else. There is nothing about our character or our spirit that sets us apart.

America is average. All you rural people, you're just like the rural people all over the world. There's nothing extra about you. You're just a rural person. They have those other places too. They are just like you. Your gun is super cool, but no one cares. There are guns all over the place. Your gun isn't special.

Enjoy. Any one of us can live here or we can live somewhere else. There is no reason to pick this place. There is no special advantage to living here... unless you want to be a racist yokel. If that's the case then this is your special golden age. Take advantage!
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I don't think you are necessarily wrong, but I do think you are being very overly dramatic.

Find me a country that hasn't been involved in slavery or hasn't been involved in fascicts or dictators one way or another, isn't overtly racist .... I get it we hold the good old U S of A to a different standard but when you compare it to everywhere else it's not as bad as we think. Not that is not an excuse to not do better, but lets not act like the USA is at the bottom of the pile all of the sudden. That would be intellectually dishonest. The past is very ugly for almost every country on earth. The USA is not even close to the most racist country, not even kind of close. Our economy is still pretty damn decent all things considered. We just have so many people and intricacies that its not fair to compare the US to small island countries with far less to deal with.

It's complicated, the US isn't even kind of close to perfect. But we also need to be realistic in how we look at things.

As far as @sirkickyass moving to Ukraine, I've spent a pretty decent amount of time there and that place is a **** hole in about every measurable way. Good luck with that.
 
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The Thriller said:
Why? Isn't their democracy even weaker than ours? Oh wait, don't answer that actually...

I think that might be a good move until 2025 when Trump 2.0 (Don jr) takes office and teams up with a host of corrupt oligarchs pillage Ukraine (even more) than they've already done.
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Don't predict crap like this. Be hopeful man.
This is something a conspiracy theorist would say.

Hopefully you were just kidding

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The Thriller said:
I think there's a lot to analyze here.

1. The segregation of our country. We've been polarizing our society since the mid 1960s. Even within states you see deep polarization.

2. At the same time we're seeing segregation in our country, we're seeing communities formed online that are nothing more than echo chambers for their preferred media and tribe. These echo chambers make one impervious to facts and radicalizes them. Qanon is a perfect example of this. People are creating their own communities online with its total effect on our democracy completely unknown.

3. The way we communicate, inform, and educate. The advent of the radio changed the way we communicated, were informed, and educated. The TV has had an even greater effect. No longer do we value information, only style. Remember how the NY Times reported that impeachment lacked the "Pizzazz" to hold our attention? TV media doesn't inform voters, but turns politics into a sport that is either won or lost. TV and social media is inhibiting the ways we communicate and retarding the way we think, articulate arguments, and otherwise make public discourse.

To borrow from the book, "Amusing ourselves to death" Orwell wrote about a society where information was carefully censored. The truth was kept from the masses. Huxley wrote about a society where information was flooded (most of it garbage) and the truth was indecipherable from fiction.

I think this is a real issue. After 4 years of this hell, million still think, "Hells yeah, I want 4 more years of this! Cry more lib!"

Perhaps we've reached the extent of liberal democracy? Perhaps we're actually on the long downslope towards oligarchy and authoritarianism? Have we ever thought about that? That our liberal democracy all the progress we've made, maybe gay marriage or the Civil Rights Act ( and the Great Society) was the pinnacle of what's possible for democracy in this county? Do societies ever known when their democracy has peaked and now backslide? Did Germany know back in 1932? Did Russia know back in the early 1990s? Will we? Western democracies all around appear to be backsliding, progress has halted. From the UK, to France, to the United States. Progress has halted in many of these democracies. Is this a speedbump or the start of something very sad?
Click to expand...
Good, thoughtful post

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
JimLes said:
Never mind all the politics, THIS is what's wrong with America and what will bring you all to ruin. Why the **** would you bake or boil ham instead of smoking and curing it? It blows my mind.

I was in staying in Phoenix metro and could not believe the paucity of proper cured meats(salumeria, if you will) at grocery stores. Your choice of cold cuts was turkey, cooked ham, or something called salami that most definitely isn't salami. The Walmart down the street from me has prosciutto, copa, Genoa and Calabrese salami, sopressata, serrano, and all sorts of other stuff along those lines. Walmart! I won't even get to the deli section at the Italian market in Calgary or Edmonton.

You couldn't pay me to eat ham if the pig was alive a year ago.
Click to expand...
Mmmmm. Us Americans are the Walmart of the world and we think we are the Tiffany's. It is what it is.
 
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