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THIS WILL BE THE LONGEST OFF-SEASON IN TEAM HISTORY

LogGrad98 said:
Percocet is my drug of choice. Love that stuff. When I was undergoing cancer treatments I had a bottle of 100 10mg percs and some time release oxy as well as pure oxy for a quick hit. I had a high level of pain due to surgeries and heavy chemo, but I didn't mind the mellow buzz, that is for sure.

Now I have a pretty high tolerance (I do naturally anyway, I always need at least 2 of the 10mg percs to touch the pain). At the time I developed a dependency, was using up to 5 10mg percs at a time, and that was ugly. I ran out one weekend, not thinking anything of it, and within hours I was in full-on withdrawal. Sweats, shakes, vomiting, the works. My wife called the doctor, told him what was going on and he personally met her at the office on a Saturday to give her a scrip, as he said that withdrawal from high levels of something like oxy can be as bad as an overdose. He almost had us go to the emergency room.

I was finally weaned off using methadone and buprenorphine. I was never a "junky" per se, I don't steal the drug, I don't buy it illicitly, never have. But I was truly addicted at the time and it took some effort to get off of it.

This was over a decade ago when the prevailing medical opinion was control the pain, deal with the addiction later. Now they have the opposite approach, due to the high number of people permanently affected by opioid addiction.

But man, if I have to get a pain killer I prefer percocet. Good stuff.
Click to expand...

Very interesting post. I’m 41 now, but I’ve had severe lower back problems since I was 17 (thanks HS football). By the age of 19 I got to the point where I was in complete agony and I finally got into a good neurologist. They did an MRI on me and saw that 3 of my discs were bulging so badly into my spinal column, that I was in surgery the next day getting a discectomy. I’ve got degenerative disc disease and while the surgery did wonders to help with the pain, my back has continued to worsen, and 8 years ago I went in for another surgery and got a one level fusion. They wanted to do a 3 level fusion but were concerned that at my age, fusing all 3 levels would leave me with almost no flexibility. So basically, they fused the worst disc and told me to hold off on future surgeries for as long as I could. The pain is crazy and during my 2nd surgery, the neurologist told me that I have the back of an 85 year old man (I was 33 at the time).

Needless to say, opiate pain killers have become a regular part of my life. The problem with those bastards is obviously that the more you take, your tolerance basically skyrockets. I’m 22 years in on treating my pain with Percocet. I’m up to 30mgs per dose. The current Opiod “Crisis” happening in our country has really got me on edge. I try to be responsible as possible, take my meds as prescribed, and keep them locked in a small digital safe that’s mounted on a shelf in my closet. My doctor keeps me updated on the ins and outs of the current war on opioids and it doesn’t look good for me. She says that while my pain is every bit as significant as somebody fighting off cancer, since I’m not terminally ill, the time will come sooner than later when patients like me see serious reductions in the pain meds we’re able to get, if we’re able to get them at all. This isn’t being judged on my pain level, it’s basically going to come down to the fact that I don’t have an expiration date.

While I’m not a doctor or an addiction expert, the measures this country is taking to basically try and wipe out opioids is very upsetting to me. I’ve used these meds responsibly for over 2 decades and I’ve NEVER, EVER, even considered turning to Heroine or other illicit street drugs. If I eventually am not able to treat my pain with opiates, I still won’t turn to those other options. However, I think this state is going to see a HUGE heroine epidemic fill the void of opiates as they continue to try and make them harder for people to get. Heroine is cheaper than ever, easy to get, and I would guess that a large percentage of chronic pain patients would turn to illicit drugs if the other option is simply doing without. I realize many families have been shattered due to opiates and addiction in general but I think our country is currently doing a horrible job of separating chronic pain patients from addicts who are trying to get their hands on whatever they can, whenever they can. Due to that, people like me are probably gonna pay the price and lose our ability to manage our pain as effectively as possible. It’s scary as hell for me to think about.

Ok, I’m off my soapbox now. Go Jazz!
 
7StraightIsGreat said:
Very interesting post. I’m 41 now, but I’ve had severe lower back problems since I was 17 (thanks HS football). By the age of 19 I got to the point where I was in complete agony and I finally got into a good neurologist. They did an MRI on me and saw that 3 of my discs were bulging so badly into my spinal column, that I was in surgery the next day getting a discectomy. I’ve got degenerative disc disease and while the surgery did wonders to help with the pain, my back has continued to worsen, and 8 years ago I went in for another surgery and got a one level fusion. They wanted to do a 3 level fusion but were concerned that at my age, fusing all 3 levels would leave me with almost no flexibility. So basically, they fused the worst disc and told me to hold off on future surgeries for as long as I could. The pain is crazy and during my 2nd surgery, the neurologist told me that I have the back of an 85 year old man (I was 33 at the time).

Needless to say, opiate pain killers have become a regular part of my life. The problem with those bastards is obviously that the more you take, your tolerance basically skyrockets. I’m 22 years in on treating my pain with Percocet. I’m up to 30mgs per dose. The current Opiod “Crisis” happening in our country has really got me on edge. I try to be responsible as possible, take my meds as prescribed, and keep them locked in a small digital safe that’s mounted on a shelf in my closet. My doctor keeps me updated on the ins and outs of the current war on opioids and it doesn’t look good for me. She says that while my pain is every bit as significant as somebody fighting off cancer, since I’m not terminally ill, the time will come sooner than later when patients like me see serious reductions in the pain meds we’re able to get, if we’re able to get them at all. This isn’t being judged on my pain level, it’s basically going to come down to the fact that I don’t have an expiration date.

While I’m not a doctor or an addiction expert, the measures this country is taking to basically try and wipe out opioids is very upsetting to me. I’ve used these meds responsibly for over 2 decades and I’ve NEVER, EVER, even considered turning to Heroine or other illicit street drugs. If I eventually am not able to treat my pain with opiates, I still won’t turn to those other options. However, I think this state is going to see a HUGE heroine epidemic fill the void of opiates as they continue to try and make them harder for people to get. Heroine is cheaper than ever, easy to get, and I would guess that a large percentage of chronic pain patients would turn to illicit drugs if the other option is simply doing without. I realize many families have been shattered due to opiates and addiction in general but I think our country is currently doing a horrible job of separating chronic pain patients from addicts who are trying to get their hands on whatever they can, whenever they can. Due to that, people like me are probably gonna pay the price and lose our ability to manage our pain as effectively as possible. It’s scary as hell for me to think about.

Ok, I’m off my soapbox now. Go Jazz!
Click to expand...
IAWTP

It is a pendulum thing. They swung it too far one way, so natrually they have to swing it every bit as far the other way. Create a bunch of addicts due to irresponsible doctors really, and then blame the addicts and restrict the drugs for all. It is stupid. When I was undergoing my treatments - I have a spinal fusion too from C7 to T3, complete with titanium hardware - I was required to meet with a pain control specialist who managed my opiate use and used other methods to treat pain, like steroid shots, stretching and massage, muscle shock therapy (can't remember the technical term). These things helped a bit, but it helped a TON when I was working on getting off of them, largely because it was built into the plan. Like you said, I had an expiration date of sorts.

Now I will live with pain the rest of my life. 70% of the time it is about a 3 on the pain scale, enough to be irritating but low enough that it kind of fades into the background. But 20% of the time it is severe, like a 7, to where it greatly affects my quality of life, and the other 10% of the time it is a 9-10, nearly debilitating. I had options in the past to get meds to help, opiates as needed. But now, like you, that option is gone. The last time I discussed it with my doctor he asked me about my pain, I explained my situation (it was a prolonged period of high pain levels for whatever reason) and he asked if I felt I needed something. I said I could use maybe 10 pills to have when I can't stand it, to control how many I was taking. He said he would check on it. I presumed with insurance. Later he said he can't fill it because I do not fit the profile (not his exact words, but that was basically it, that I didn't need it for a defined medical condition, like your bulging disk or something that is actively being treated) and he gave me 800 mg ibuprofen instead. When it is flaring up ibuprofen can't touch it. But I can't get anything either. Mine is not as bad as yours but I see where it is headed too.

How long before they push the pendulum back the other way? It's stupid.
 
LogGrad98 said:
IAWTP

It is a pendulum thing. They swung it too far one way, so natrually they have to swing it every bit as far the other way. Create a bunch of addicts due to irresponsible doctors really, and then blame the addicts and restrict the drugs for all. It is stupid. When I was undergoing my treatments - I have a spinal fusion too from C7 to T3, complete with titanium hardware - I was required to meet with a pain control specialist who managed my opiate use and used other methods to treat pain, like steroid shots, stretching and massage, muscle shock therapy (can't remember the technical term). These things helped a bit, but it helped a TON when I was working on getting off of them, largely because it was built into the plan. Like you said, I had an expiration date of sorts.

Now I will live with pain the rest of my life. 70% of the time it is about a 3 on the pain scale, enough to be irritating but low enough that it kind of fades into the background. But 20% of the time it is severe, like a 7, to where it greatly affects my quality of life, and the other 10% of the time it is a 9-10, nearly debilitating. I had options in the past to get meds to help, opiates as needed. But now, like you, that option is gone. The last time I discussed it with my doctor he asked me about my pain, I explained my situation (it was a prolonged period of high pain levels for whatever reason) and he asked if I felt I needed something. I said I could use maybe 10 pills to have when I can't stand it, to control how many I was taking. He said he would check on it. I presumed with insurance. Later he said he can't fill it because I do not fit the profile (not his exact words, but that was basically it, that I didn't need it for a defined medical condition, like your bulging disk or something that is actively being treated) and he gave me 800 mg ibuprofen instead. When it is flaring up ibuprofen can't touch it. But I can't get anything either. Mine is not as bad as yours but I see where it is headed too.

How long before they push the pendulum back the other way? It's stupid.
Click to expand...

You’re 100% right on the pendulum example. For years, doctors played it fast and loose with opiates while they lined their pockets with incentive payments from big pharma. While that is something that can’t be ignored, I also think too many people that get hooked on pain pills are quick to point a finger at the doctors while accepting ZERO accountability for their own actions. From the very second that I started using Percocet for pain, I knew I was opening a door that would take me down a very dangerous path and it wasn’t on anybody but ME to make sure that I kept my usage under control.

It might sound cold hearted, but I don’t think most of the addicts that have been created during this opioid crisis as victims. Alema Harrington is very quick to come out and tell his story of addiction that started while he was sustaining injuries playing football at BYU. He’s even quicker to point his finger in blame at the medical system that supplied his pills. I think that’s weak ********. We live in a world where it’s much easier to blame big pharma and doctors for our addiction problems as opposed to accepting personal responsibility for our actions.
 
Wow, 7straight and Loggrad...you guys have my sympathy. I have chronic foot pain, but nothing as severe as what you two are going through. I've also been through a couple of bouts of kidney stones and the 800mg ibuprofen does very little for pain. My ex father-in-law struggles with much of what you two are going through: terrible pain caused by injuries. He's addicted to pain meds and I think is facing the same challenges now with obtaining more. I wish you two the best and can honestly say I'm glad I sucked at football in HS.
 
7StraightIsGreat said:
Very interesting post. I’m 41 now, but I’ve had severe lower back problems since I was 17 (thanks HS football). By the age of 19 I got to the point where I was in complete agony and I finally got into a good neurologist. They did an MRI on me and saw that 3 of my discs were bulging so badly into my spinal column, that I was in surgery the next day getting a discectomy. I’ve got degenerative disc disease and while the surgery did wonders to help with the pain, my back has continued to worsen, and 8 years ago I went in for another surgery and got a one level fusion. They wanted to do a 3 level fusion but were concerned that at my age, fusing all 3 levels would leave me with almost no flexibility. So basically, they fused the worst disc and told me to hold off on future surgeries for as long as I could. The pain is crazy and during my 2nd surgery, the neurologist told me that I have the back of an 85 year old man (I was 33 at the time).

Needless to say, opiate pain killers have become a regular part of my life. The problem with those bastards is obviously that the more you take, your tolerance basically skyrockets. I’m 22 years in on treating my pain with Percocet. I’m up to 30mgs per dose. The current Opiod “Crisis” happening in our country has really got me on edge. I try to be responsible as possible, take my meds as prescribed, and keep them locked in a small digital safe that’s mounted on a shelf in my closet. My doctor keeps me updated on the ins and outs of the current war on opioids and it doesn’t look good for me. She says that while my pain is every bit as significant as somebody fighting off cancer, since I’m not terminally ill, the time will come sooner than later when patients like me see serious reductions in the pain meds we’re able to get, if we’re able to get them at all. This isn’t being judged on my pain level, it’s basically going to come down to the fact that I don’t have an expiration date.

While I’m not a doctor or an addiction expert, the measures this country is taking to basically try and wipe out opioids is very upsetting to me. I’ve used these meds responsibly for over 2 decades and I’ve NEVER, EVER, even considered turning to Heroine or other illicit street drugs. If I eventually am not able to treat my pain with opiates, I still won’t turn to those other options. However, I think this state is going to see a HUGE heroine epidemic fill the void of opiates as they continue to try and make them harder for people to get. Heroine is cheaper than ever, easy to get, and I would guess that a large percentage of chronic pain patients would turn to illicit drugs if the other option is simply doing without. I realize many families have been shattered due to opiates and addiction in general but I think our country is currently doing a horrible job of separating chronic pain patients from addicts who are trying to get their hands on whatever they can, whenever they can. Due to that, people like me are probably gonna pay the price and lose our ability to manage our pain as effectively as possible. It’s scary as hell for me to think about.

Ok, I’m off my soapbox now. Go Jazz!
Click to expand...

Friend of mine is in a similar position with a back injury from a car crash, they've cut off his pain meds and he has had to quit work, it hasn't really worked out well for him. My mum is on the fentanyl for chronic pain issues. Healthy people have no idea what people with chronic pain suffer, or Kings fans for that matter.
 
Anyone listen to Locke the other day talk his way out of making Exum an offer.
I get some of his logic, but man - the guy is a low key hater.

He would take Reggie Bullock > Exum (from what I was hearing).
 
7StraightIsGreat said:
We live in a world where it’s much easier to blame big pharma and doctors for our addiction problems as opposed to accepting personal responsibility for our actions.
Click to expand...

I half agree. Pharmaceuticals are in the business of selling drugs, I don't expect them to care about who might become addicted. However, doctors are supposed to have my best interests at heart, and if a doctor suggests a course of treatment, I should be able to rely on that opinion to a large degree. Doctors who are not monitoring for signs of addiction and responding to them are not doing their job properly.
 
Et tu Brute said:
Anyone listen to Locke the other day talk his way out of making Exum an offer.
I get some of his logic, but man - the guy is a low key hater.

He would take Reggie Bullock > Exum (from what I was hearing).
Click to expand...

Considering how close Locke seems to be with Coach Igor, I wouldn’t be surprised if his opinion on Dante is based off how he perceives the coaching staff to feel about Dante.

I for one am on board with bringing Dante back if the price is reasonable. However, I half wonder if the coaching staff is sick of all the setbacks that have come along with Dante. This decision will be an interesting turning point of our offseason.
 
Speaking of the off-season and David Locke. Locke's favorite draftee from 2011 is playing well in the Euro Finals prompting some to ask if he will make a try at the nba again.



Would the Jazz be interested in a playmaking pf from Europe?

Ironically, my favorite euro from the 2011 draft was Montijunas whose career was derailed by a back injury. I don't know if opioids were involved, but it happened in 2015 so probably.
 
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Jack Strop said:
Wow, 7straight and Loggrad...you guys have my sympathy. I have chronic foot pain, but nothing as severe as what you two are going through. I've also been through a couple of bouts of kidney stones and the 800mg ibuprofen does very little for pain. My ex father-in-law struggles with much of what you two are going through: terrible pain caused by injuries. He's addicted to pain meds and I think is facing the same challenges now with obtaining more. I wish you two the best and can honestly say I'm glad I sucked at football in HS.
Click to expand...
The worst hell I have ever experienced, chemo and multiple back surgeries included, was from kidney stones. Absolutely the worst pain I have ever experienced. I have a pretty damn high tolerance to pain, most people have no idea when I am hurting, it even freaked out my doctors sometimes because I wouldn't wince or show outward signs of pain. But holy hell, kidney stone hits (have had 3 so far over the years) and I am on the floor, writhing around, knocking **** down, mewling like a cat in heat. My wife said I looked like I was possessed or something.. Had a hard time walking. It is the worst.
 
mellow said:
Speaking of the off-season and David Locke. Locke's favorite draftee from 2010 is playing well in the Euro Finals prompting some to ask if he will make a try at the nba again.



Would the Jazz be interested in a playmaking pf from Europe?
Click to expand...

Yes. Why not?
 
7StraightIsGreat said:
You’re 100% right on the pendulum example. For years, doctors played it fast and loose with opiates while they lined their pockets with incentive payments from big pharma. While that is something that can’t be ignored, I also think too many people that get hooked on pain pills are quick to point a finger at the doctors while accepting ZERO accountability for their own actions. From the very second that I started using Percocet for pain, I knew I was opening a door that would take me down a very dangerous path and it wasn’t on anybody but ME to make sure that I kept my usage under control.

It might sound cold hearted, but I don’t think most of the addicts that have been created during this opioid crisis as victims. Alema Harrington is very quick to come out and tell his story of addiction that started while he was sustaining injuries playing football at BYU. He’s even quicker to point his finger in blame at the medical system that supplied his pills. I think that’s weak ********. We live in a world where it’s much easier to blame big pharma and doctors for our addiction problems as opposed to accepting personal responsibility for our actions.
Click to expand...
When it comes to chemical dependency, the question becomes much bigger and messier than some simple concept of willpower. It's not a question of philosophy, it's a question of the power of the mind, even at the expense of conscious will.
 
mellow said:
Speaking of the off-season and David Locke. Locke's favorite draftee from 2011 is playing well in the Euro Finals prompting some to ask if he will make a try at the nba again.



Would the Jazz be interested in a playmaking pf from Europe?
Click to expand...

Can he shoot yet? If the answer is still no, then the answer is still no.

Not important: it was 2011
Not as not important: I hated him coming into the draft
 
LogGrad98 said:
The worst hell I have ever experienced, chemo and multiple back surgeries included, was from kidney stones. Absolutely the worst pain I have ever experienced. I have a pretty damn high tolerance to pain, most people have no idea when I am hurting, it even freaked out my doctors sometimes because I wouldn't wince or show outward signs of pain. But holy hell, kidney stone hits (have had 3 so far over the years) and I am on the floor, writhing around, knocking **** down, mewling like a cat in heat. My wife said I looked like I was possessed or something.. Had a hard time walking. It is the worst.
Click to expand...
Hospital both times for me. First time I had to have them surgically removed, but not until 3 weeks of anti-biotics to knock down the UTI I had from the stones severely restricting my flow (both sides). Second time I was driving home from a trip to Utah. Had to drive about 1 1/2 hours to find a city with a hospital. I sure do love Dilaudid (and morpheine). But I'd take the kidney stone attacks once in a while over chronic pain. Dealing with pain that just keeps you up night after night and causes you to not be able to enjoy what you used to really sucks, especially knowing the pain will never go away. You and the rest who bear the scars of football or other injuries have my sympathy.
 
Not even to the finals yet and it’s been like 5 months!!! I’m not gonna make it! Go on without me...!
 
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