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Tibor Pleiss

hmmmm....what is the opportunity cost of bringing over Tomic or Pleiss? So much for having a ton of money to get a top FA this offseason if we do.
 
Hantlers said:
If Abrines was our top choice and we didn't get him, then DL is a moron. OKC isn't going to buckle down and say no to Enes Kanter because of Abrines.
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Again, you may be right that Pleiss was the choice over Abrines and that it may be connected to the low likelihood of persuading Tomic. And maybe DL thinks Pleiss has more in him than he's shown this year.

But if I'm making the trade and prioritizing between Abrines and Pleiss, I'm choosing Abrines. I think the likelihood that he offers a high-level NBA skill is higher than Pleiss. He's also younger. I think what Pleiss offers is not that hard to pick up for a decent price on the open market. Might be a little harder to say that about Abrines.

Who would you choose?
 
silesian said:
hmmmm....what is the opportunity cost of bringing over Tomic or Pleiss? So much for having a ton of money to get a top FA this offseason if we do.
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Great point. I wouldn't offer Pleiss more than 2-3 million. I'd guess 2-3 million more for Tomic. And that could be a big deal. Might be better ways to spend the money.
 
idiot said:
Again, you may be right that Pleiss was the choice over Abrines and that it may be connected to the low likelihood of persuading Tomic. And maybe DL thinks Pleiss has more in him than he's shown this year.

But if I'm making the trade and prioritizing between Abrines and Pleiss, I'm choosing Abrines. I think the likelihood that he offers a high-level NBA skill is higher than Pleiss. He's also younger. I think what Pleiss offers is not that hard to pick up for a decent price on the open market. Might be a little harder to say that about Abrines.

Who would you choose?
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Oh I would have chosen Abrines, but I also think we got royally screwed on the whole trads. That trade certainly did not give me more confidence in DL.
 
silesian said:
hmmmm....what is the opportunity cost of bringing over Tomic or Pleiss? So much for having a ton of money to get a top FA this offseason if we do.
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Full MLE is $5,000,000 per year for 3 years. That's exactly what I would offer Tomic. Plus the opportunity to make a LOT more money in three years as an NBA restricted free agent at the age of 31.

The big problem with this is that the Jazz won't have the full MLE if they're operating below the salary cap at the beginning of the 2015/2016 offseason. The simple solution to this is to sign veteran bench players now to 1 year contracts with unguaranteed team options for next year - just like Trevor Booker. It effectively eats up the cap space, gives them contracts they can use in deals to acquire players through sign and trades AND allows them to keep their MLE to use on Tomic if they manage to fill out the rest of the roster with FAs and draft picks before they make his signing official.
 
Wasn't a big fan of the return either, even though the trade may have been for the best, given the circumstances.

Wish we could know what was on the table. OKC clearly was weighing Lopez vs. Kanter (along with the rest of the pieces). DL must have had a backup for Kanter, with the hints that have been thrown around that they decided a while ago that Kanter was on his way out.

Edit: meant this as a reply to Hantlers's last post above.
 
gregbroncs said:
But wasn't he already locked into a contract? Pretty sure he had a 2-3 year deal in Europe when he was drafted. By the time the buy out was affordable the Jazz were in rebuild mode.
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I'm pretty sure that when they drafted him, he was under contract, but the plan was to stash him for awhile. He had no contract (thus no buy-out) in 2012, but he hadn't shown his potential and KOC wanted to see him show more before bringing him over. By the time Lindsay was in place, Tomic had signed a new contract with Barcelona and that door closed until the buyout became manageable.

Based on what he's done so far, I could see DL go after Tomic in 2012 over Evans as a backup big, but he'd have been the 5th big behind Jefferson, Millsap, Favors and Kanter with no guarantee that Jefferson/Millsap wouldn't be brought back. It was completely different from his current situation. Tomic has filled out his frame and is one of the top big men in Europe without a long-term contract in place. The Jazz have two (maybe three) big men who would play over him, so he won't have nearly the competition for minutes - plus he'd be playing for a coach who wants/needs what he excels at (shooting/passing). I realize that people are reluctant to believe that the Jazz will ever cash in that chip, but the timing couldn't be better - depending on what the buyout is for his team option year.
 
Ellis269 said:
I'm pretty sure that when they drafted him, he was under contract, but the plan was to stash him for awhile. He had no contract (thus no buy-out) in 2012, but he hadn't shown his potential and KOC wanted to see him show more before bringing him over. By the time Lindsay was in place, Tomic had signed a new contract with Barcelona and that door closed until the buyout became manageable.

Based on what he's done so far, I could see DL go after Tomic in 2012 over Evans as a backup big, but he'd have been the 5th big behind Jefferson, Millsap, Favors and Kanter with no guarantee that Jefferson/Millsap wouldn't be brought back. It was completely different from his current situation. Tomic has filled out his frame and is one of the top big men in Europe without a long-term contract in place. The Jazz have two (maybe three) big men who would play over him, so he won't have nearly the competition for minutes - plus he'd be playing for a coach who wants/needs what he excels at (shooting/passing). I realize that people are reluctant to believe that the Jazz will ever cash in that chip, but the timing couldn't be better - depending on what the buyout is for his team option year.
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Great post. I wonder it the thinking for the Kanter trade is that they believe that Tomic will come over this off season. If that happens then trading Kanter should be acceptable for more people.
 
I would laugh if pleiss gets out of his contract because he doesn't like playing behind tomic. the jazz give him 2 years with 2 years team options. then next summer the jazz sign tomic to a big 3 year deal and pleiss ends up being a 3rd center behind Gobert and tomic.
 
GVC said:
Can't do that. You either sign free agents using cap space and renounce the MLE and Bi-annual exception OR use the MLE or bi-annual exception and renounce the cap space.
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Yeah. I thought we had more cap space to pick up a contract or two for the rest of this year to also tack on an unguaranteed year to hold cap space without jeopardizing flexibility, but the Jazz only have $2.8 million left after buying out Perkins. Even factoring in the maximum raise, it wouldn't be enough. I was hoping that they'd have a way to manipulate cap space by extending contracts that wouldn't likely be used as anything other than trade filler so a team could then cut them to create space. Similar to what you suggested with Booker. If they could do a couple of those, then they could conceivably start the season above the tax line, but have a lot of flexibility to trade or cut players to create space or add veterans through FA or S&T and still have the full MLE, but they can't get to that number by that method. Ironically, it would have been better to keep Kanter if they wanted to bring over Tomic and still made a play for a FA or veteran trade. Between Kanter's cap hold and tricks they could have pulled this year, they could have easily gotten up to the cap, plus used the MLE on Tomic. But oh well.
 
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