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Time to crank it up! Training Camp thoughts

Jerry Lundegaard

Jerry Lundegaard

Banned
I'm fired up for this season to get cookin'... If anyone around here ever listens to me, they'd know how much I hated Boozer and Sally Korver for various reasons... So obviously I am thrilled they are no longer on the team.

I think we are going to be extremely dangerous this season, and I don't see why we can't challenge the Lakers for the Western Conference Title.

D-Will: Not much needs to be said. Best point guard on the planet.

C.J.: I've been his biggest apologist around here since I joined this community back in 2006. I fully believe he will be a huge part of our success this year. Very versatile offensive player who's just scratching the surface. His experience and added strength will help him improve as a defender.

AK: Looked like vintage AK for a 30 game stretch where we were unstoppable before he got hurt. Hopefully the emergence of CJ and additions of Raja and Gordon can help limit AK when necessary and keep him healthy.

Millsap: The beast finally has his chance to shine! Can't wait to see how he responds.

Al-Jeff: First time since Karl Malone we've had a big we can throw it to on the block and let him score no matter who is guarding him. Doesn't need to get the ball in a pick and roll to score. Love his touch down low. I will be interested to see how Jerry rotates Al, Memo, Fes, and Sap

Hayward: I created a thread on Jazzfanz last February saying I'd love the Jazz to take him or Kyle Singler with the Knicks pick and was blasted saying it'd be too early. Turns out the Jazz pulled the trigger on Hayward, and those same fans that blasted me - plus a boatload more - blasted KOC.

Some of them came around after an intriguing performance in the summer league, but not all. I don't put much weight in Summer League numbers but Hayward is such a versatile player - and has an incredible feel for the game. He is going to be EXCELLENT for us this year as a role player. He will develop into a very good starter in a few years.

Bell: I was happy we signed him. I hope he is healthy and stays that way. Brings a much needed element to the team.

Fes: I've set the bar pretty low for him because he is still real raw - but if he hasn't made any improvement from last season I will be real disappointed. All we need out of him is to play good defense when he is in, rebound the ball, and finish around the basket if he gets the ball off a drive and dish.

Watson/Price: While Deron is amazing - a backup PG who can get into the lane and create is necessary. That was the one thing I wanted the front office to go out and get in the offseason and I don't think Watson is the answer. We'll see. But if our second unit starts to stall early and often with either of those two - I hope KOC recognizes it and makes another move.

Memo: Can't decide if he is becoming washed up or if last year was an anomaly. Either way, his return to form is still a question mark.


We have an incredible mix of talent and different skill sets that all fit coach Sloan's style. I'm as excited about this season as any other I can remember in my life. Cannot wait to see how things unfold!

Go Jazz!!!!
 
I share a lot of your excitement regarding the upcoming season but many things are going to have to happen in order for the Jazz to be legitimate contenders. Some of things are not likely to happen or are BIG IFs.

If Hayward is better than people think, if Fes has finally gotten it (good sign is he lost 20-25 pounds), AJ explodes in the Jazz system and can be the number #2 guy, If Okur returns healthy and can provide us with consistent results, if Bell/Watson has something in the tank, and CJ and Millsap are ready to step up and be a top 3 or 4 guy and last but not least if AK stay healthy and return to being a 5x5 guy. Another huge issue is chemistry due to the amount of change and the possibility of a lack of minutes for guys. I think this team has the potential to be very good if they can mesh and work hard and as a team. I think some of the new additions appear to be mentally tougher guys than we lost. Of course health will always be an issue. Jazz like most teams need to stay healthy to have any shot at competing with the top teams of the Western conference.
 
I think people are overrating Hayward for this year. I don't think Hayward is going to get the minutes to make a big impact. I would be surprised to see Hayward even play consistently. I think Bell, Miles & AK will be the regular rotation for the wing position.

I think we should have high hopes for Hayward but not for this year. He is still very young and I don't see Jerry trusting him to play consistently.

If you look at Deron, Matthews and Millsap who were all rookies but they had NBA read bodies and were physical enough to play against NBA players. I don't think Hayward is ready for that yet. He will learn in time the right techniques and also get more strength but he is not ready for serious playing time. I am optimistic about him though. I think he will become good for us in about 1-2 years like KOC said.
 
Archie Moses said:
If Fes turned into a 7 and 10 guy with 1.5 blocks a game, how far would the Jazz go this year?
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That's really hard to say because it changes a ton of lineup things. What about if/when Memo comes back? What happens to AK's minutes? Or Millsap's?
 
I do not get the strength arguement when people use it to say Hayward is not ready. The kids is pretty strong for his position. Is he any skinner than AK was he was a rookie. Hayward will play some, how much is how well he does but I think he will earn some playing time this year. According to Sloan, he said the SF position is between AK/Hayward so unless Thompson or Evans surprises everyone I think Hayward can get backup minutes and eventually be the starter. I know Thompson is a SG but if he is the next Wes Matthews than CJ can drop down to SF.

I think Sloan is going to have a tough time keeping everyone happy because of the depth but having good talent is a good thing.
 
Twin Towers said:
I think people are overrating Hayward for this year. I don't think Hayward is going to get the minutes to make a big impact. I would be surprised to see Hayward even play consistently. I think Bell, Miles & AK will be the regular rotation for the wing position.
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Well, Sloan did say Honzward and AK will be battling for the starting SF spot. Was that to motivate AK or does Jerry believe Flash can be effective? He also said AK will be in the mix at backup PF, so that leaves even more minutes available at the 3.

Contrary to popular opinion, Sloan does play rookies when they deserve minutes:
Pavlovic, Snyder, Humphries, Millsap...all those guys got significant PT as rookies (obviously Deron as well). CJ was an exception, but he was fresh out of HS, so that's understandable.

Hayward may be on the slender side, but he does quite a few things well. I realize performance in the OSL doesn't necessarily translate into success in the regular season, but we saw some decent ballhandling, passing, rebounding and intelligent play in the sense of knowing his spots within the offense.

I have to think there were some legs to the rumored trade. Maybe KOC didn't initiate the talks but he didn't dissuade them or deny that they progressed quite far. The fact that AK may have been dealt for a PF and a role-player leads me to believe KOC and Sloan weren't too concerned about a rotation of CJ, Bell and Hayward. QRoss certainly wasn't going to play 30 mins/per.

Unless he's injured, Hawyard will play in all 82 games and average at least 15 mins/per. Book it!
 
Wonder what kind of rookie initiation Hayward and Evans are going to have to do? Remember Matthews and Maynor had to wear little girlie backpacks.
 
GlassEater said:
Well, Sloan did say Honzward and AK will be battling for the starting SF spot. Was that to motivate AK or does Jerry believe Flash can be effective? He also said AK will be in the mix at backup PF, so that leaves even more minutes available at the 3.

Contrary to popular opinion, Sloan does play rookies when they deserve minutes:
Pavlovic, Snyder, Humphries, Millsap...all those guys got significant PT as rookies (obviously Deron as well). CJ was an exception, but he was fresh out of HS, so that's understandable.

Hayward may be on the slender side, but he does quite a few things well. I realize performance in the OSL doesn't necessarily translate into success in the regular season, but we saw some decent ballhandling, passing, rebounding and intelligent play in the sense of knowing his spots within the offense.

I have to think there were some legs to the rumored trade. Maybe KOC didn't initiate the talks but he didn't dissuade them or deny that they progressed quite far. The fact that AK may have been dealt for a PF and a role-player leads me to believe KOC and Sloan weren't too concerned about a rotation of CJ, Bell and Hayward. QRoss certainly wasn't going to play 30 mins/per.

Unless he's injured, Hawyard will play in all 82 games and average at least 15 mins/per. Book it!
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That makes sense. I honestly think Hayward is ready to play minutes consistently but I just didn't think Hayward would play a lot. I think 15 minutes is fair. I really hope its consistent though rather than 15 minutes than none for 3 games.

KOC might like Hayward enough to trade AK away but that doesn't mean Sloan will play him. I think its a 50/50 chance he plays consistently right now. Hopefully he does.
 
Twin Towers said:
I think people are overrating Hayward for this year. I don't think Hayward is going to get the minutes to make a big impact. I would be surprised to see Hayward even play consistently. I think Bell, Miles & AK will be the regular rotation for the wing position.

I think we should have high hopes for Hayward but not for this year. He is still very young and I don't see Jerry trusting him to play consistently.

If you look at Deron, Matthews and Millsap who were all rookies but they had NBA read bodies and were physical enough to play against NBA players. I don't think Hayward is ready for that yet. He will learn in time the right techniques and also get more strength but he is not ready for serious playing time. I am optimistic about him though. I think he will become good for us in about 1-2 years like KOC said.
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Not sure about that. He looked like a seasoned veteran in summer league. He didn't jack up 30 shots like other rookies but he made all the right decisions.
 
Jazz4ever said:
Not sure about that. He looked like a seasoned veteran in summer league. He didn't jack up 30 shots like other rookies but he made all the right decisions.
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I think Hayward is smart enough to play right now. I just don't think he will be strong enough to guard SF's in the league. And I don't think he is quick enough to guard SG's in the league.

Offensively I think he is ready just needs NBA experience. I do think Sloan will always choose Miles, Bell and AK over Hayward leaving him with very little time.

I love his offensive game I just see him getting pushed around or blown by on defense depending on who he is guarding. Miles and Bell have more strength and more lateral quickness it seems. So hopefully he is better than I think but there is a lot of concerns on the defensive side of the ball.
 
Twin Towers said:
I think people are overrating Hayward for this year. I don't think Hayward is going to get the minutes to make a big impact. I would be surprised to see Hayward even play consistently. I think Bell, Miles & AK will be the regular rotation for the wing position.

I think we should have high hopes for Hayward but not for this year. He is still very young and I don't see Jerry trusting him to play consistently.

If you look at Deron, Matthews and Millsap who were all rookies but they had NBA read bodies and were physical enough to play against NBA players. I don't think Hayward is ready for that yet. He will learn in time the right techniques and also get more strength but he is not ready for serious playing time. I am optimistic about him though. I think he will become good for us in about 1-2 years like KOC said.
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You can't have a 3 man wing rotation for the regular season. You want to space out the minutes and keep guys healthy, at least until rotations get tightened closer to the playoffs. I'd guess we'll see AK/CJ averaging around 30 with Bell/Hayward averaging around 20. But whatever the numbers, we need 4 guys eating up the 96.
 
I am not worried about Deron or Millsap. I know what they are going to do.

I expect AK to have a very good year in a contract year. I watched Hayward very carefully in the Summer League and in college. He was rarely just straight overpowered. He is wiry and very tough. However I am concerned about his ability to guard quick 3's. Offensively he has a very good, in control all around game. I would be surprised as thin as we are on the wings if he doesn't play at least 15 minutes a game.

I am excited that CJ is finally maturing into an NBA body. Bell is going be a 'Fisheresque' presence for this team in addition to helping our defensive woes and providing 3pt shooting. I expect that he will okay defensively and he will continue to improve with his offensive decision making.

Jefferson is a very good player but I am concerned about his ability to understand the Jazz offense and pass the ball effectively.

I think the intangibles and toughness that Watson brings overshadow his poor shot making ability. And if we want a scoring point we can alway give Price a chance and see if he is hot.

Finally Fess is going to get a really big chance this year. If he fails then we have some backup in Elston.

And onto the real training camp battles. Gaines, Thompson, Nichols, Jeffers and Evans all non-guaranteed contracts. Gaines has almost no chance with 3 guaranteed contracts at PG. Enough of the veterans have raved about Evans' athletic ability and Sloan has given him the 'hard worker' stamp of approval. Evans will be on the team. That would give us the required 13 players. But I would be really surprised if we don't take one of the 3 wings into camp with us.

Jeffers has the advantage of a year in the system and being the best defender and athlete.

Thompson is the biggest player and apparently have the best all around game. Many scouts question his athletic ability and his ability to defend.

Nichols was a very good shooter in college and I don't know how well he has improved overseas.

We'll see who impresses.
 
Twin Towers said:
I think people are overrating Hayward for this year. I don't think Hayward is going to get the minutes to make a big impact. I would be surprised to see Hayward even play consistently. I think Bell, Miles & AK will be the regular rotation for the wing position.

I think we should have high hopes for Hayward but not for this year. He is still very young and I don't see Jerry trusting him to play consistently.

If you look at Deron, Matthews and Millsap who were all rookies but they had NBA read bodies and were physical enough to play against NBA players. I don't think Hayward is ready for that yet. He will learn in time the right techniques and also get more strength but he is not ready for serious playing time. I am optimistic about him though. I think he will become good for us in about 1-2 years like KOC said.
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Hayward has an NBA ready body. He is taller and weighs more than Wesley Johnson and weighs 3 pounds less than Evan Turner.
Also, Kobe Bryant is listed at 205...Hayward weighed in at 211 at the combine.
 
billyshelby said:
You can't have a 3 man wing rotation for the regular season. You want to space out the minutes and keep guys healthy, at least until rotations get tightened closer to the playoffs. I'd guess we'll see AK/CJ averaging around 30 with Bell/Hayward averaging around 20. But whatever the numbers, we need 4 guys eating up the 96.
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I can promise you that Bell will play 28 minimum.

Bell (28)
AK (30)
CJ (26)
Hayward (12)

When I say 3 man rotation I mean 3 guys will play the majority of the minutes. Hayward will still play but very little.

I just think that is what Sloan will do. Every year he plays our starters more minutes than he should. He wears them out before the playoffs start. Than teams like the Lakers and Spurs play them less during the season than play them a ton in the playoffs. I am just going off history. Sloan doesn't think playoffs are different than the regular season in terms of rotation it seems (unless injuries occur).
 
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