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Too Many Question Marks

Saint Cy of JFC said:
Wow, huge sample.
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Of course it's a HUGE sample considered the number of games Conley's had left as a Jazz player.


How many more games do you think Conley's gonna play for us? 30? 40?

Remember, he's brought in as a "win-now" guy. His timeline with us is really just 2019-2021 and he's already half way-through. AND next season will probably be shortened because of Corona virus so there isn't much "sample" left for Conley to prove his worth as the "difference maker" in our championship quest
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
It ain't small... and the lineup minutes is over about as big of a sample as you will get in a shortened season.
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sick n tired of "Conley needs more time", "Conley needs more sample" typa ********. He is a 33 yr old vet who's brought in specifically to make contributions right away and help us win now. If he demands more patience from jazz fans, just tell me why shouldn't we give it to a player who's much younger and will be here long term instead?
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Yeah man I'm the clown... some of the stuff is circumstantial but a lot of it points right at Mike. Without Mike's deal it makes it easier to maneuver and address issues. He might contribute but he's also a stumbling block in a few ways.

A guy has trade value because he is a good player on a deal that represents his value. Those are pieces we should keep. What do you propose we trade Bojan for that makes us better?
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Handlogten's Heros said:
Yeah man I'm the clown... some of the stuff is circumstantial but a lot of it points right at Mike. Without Mike's deal it makes it easier to maneuver and address issues. He might contribute but he's also a stumbling block in a few ways.

A guy has trade value because he is a good player on a deal that represents his value. Those are pieces we should keep. What do you propose we trade Bojan for that makes us better?
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I didn't say to move him, just that if you had to move someone. I'm 100% run it back with minor additions
 
jom2003 said:
In Denver series, they had only 2 games of Gary harris and 0 of Will barton, with whom i'd believe is a player on par with bojan.

It's frustrating to blow a 3-1 lead but Denver clearly has more talented players than us and we wouldn't have led the series anyways if it wasn't for DM's historic scoring performance that basically made up for Bojan's scoring production. We didn't lose the series because of lack of offense. We lost because of our defensive woes and I'm just afraid that there isn't much Bojan could've helped us on that end.
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Bogie helps when DM or Clarkson are struggling on offense. Not many people have mentioned this but DM defense in game seven was the best I have seen him play. However, he was spent on the offensive end so Bogie helps this situation. Plus DM doesn't have to score 50 for us to win. I agree Denver has more talent on their roster. We have about 6-7 guys who are playoff NBA players. Niang is a regular season guy but should not be getting big minutes in a playoff series. I know that no one could stop Murray most of the series but I still would have like to see Oni given a shot. He has size and some length plus six fouls. It wasn't like Ingles or Royce were having much success.
 
homeytennis said:
KSL really trashed Bradley and Ingles in their article about the 32 free agents the Jazz might have some interest in. Perhaps the front office is thinking sew up Clarkson and let's go shopping and make a deal. It sounded like Gobert and Spida are the only untouchables. I don't think it is a good sign that Ingles has said he wants to finish his career playing in Australia.
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The way he played it looked like it. I love Joe but he needs to come off the bench and if he passes up open shots then Quin needs to talk to him. Look I need you to shoot when you have an open shot. It was maddening some times. If he miss 3 in a row then he can start passing and playing defense.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Fairly easily. Mitchell has to try more then the rest of the team will follow. Conely isnt the sieve yall make him out to be.
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Well the Jazz need his offense so if we can have guys pick up the offense responsibilities than maybe DM has some more energy to play defense. In game seven he was a major reason why Murray didn't go crazy but it affect DM's offense. I think DM rest on defense some times is because he has so much responsibility on offense. Having Bogey would have helped but having two guys who are afraid to shoot doesn't.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I’m not just talking about the Denver series. We hardly ever used Morgan as a 5 in non-garbage time. We did in Houston and he was great. There was one other game where we may have done it. Regardless the Morgan lineups were almost all super positive and in the Houston game he was like +11. He was used as a center in the g league and dominated. Then we use him as a PF and just put him in the corner... G league is to get reps but those reps don’t mean a lot of you are used completely different in the varsity league.

DL didn’t do Quin any favors and I recognize that but Quin also has to coach from the playoffs backwards when deciding which guys are getting rotation minutes and what schemes we can run. TB is at best a Kanter type... those guys can’t play in the playoffs if you want to be successful. So maybe commit to a guy that has a shot.

Denver had 5 guys that didn’t play... because their other guys were better. Some of those guys could absolutely play for us. We could have done Quin a solid and waived NWG for a functional player... or at least get a better project...

And again it’s more about knowing what we have now... and we don’t know.
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Morgan had only a few good games as Back-Up 5 but they were only good because he matched up well, all the other times he was clearly outsized and fouled as much as Bradley anyways. Morgan was not better than Bradley. Bradley took the spot from Davis and Morgan had as much of a chance.

Quin played Morgan as a PF and got contribution. I don't see the problem here.

There aren't many schemes we can run. We aren't playing drop big because of a choice, it's a necessity because of our poor perimeter defense. It's also wrong that we didn't try anything different on defense. We doubled Murray for a few possessions but players not sticking with any game plan has been the tale this season. I don't know how much of it is on Quin but players like him so I don't think he lost the locker room.

It didn't matter who played Back-Up 5 in the playoffs this year. Bradley offers better rim protection because he takes more space, Morgan is quicker. They are both not Kanter.

Denver's 5 guys would not play for us either. Who is Bol Bol, KBP, Vonleh, Cancar are better than? You just have these guys like every team, sometimes they surprise you most often they don't.
 
Hekate said:
Morgan had only a few good games as Back-Up 5 but they were only good because he matched up well, all the other times he was clearly outsized and fouled as much as Bradley anyways. Morgan was not better than Bradley. Bradley took the spot from Davis and Morgan had as much of a chance.

Quin played Morgan as a PF and got contribution. I don't see the problem here.

There aren't many schemes we can run. We aren't playing drop big because of a choice, it's a necessity because of our poor perimeter defense. It's also wrong that we didn't try anything different on defense. We doubled Murray for a few possessions but players not sticking with any game plan has been the tale this season. I don't know how much of it is on Quin but players like him so I don't think he lost the locker room.

It didn't matter who played Back-Up 5 in the playoffs this year. Bradley offers better rim protection because he takes more space, Morgan is quicker. They are both not Kanter.

Denver's 5 guys would not play for us either. Who is Bol Bol, KBP, Vonleh, Cancar are better than? You just have these guys like every team, sometimes they surprise you most often they don't.
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Vonleh and Dozier may have played for us.

Morgan only played backup center in like two games this year... unless it was garbage time. Overall he had a grand total of like 20 minutes as a center with non-garbage time lineups... those lineups had absurdly high net ratings. So it may not have been the answer but it was effective in a small sample.

Locke did a deep dive on TB. He basically gets targeted as much as any player in the league and got an F on rim protection. Its hard when he shares the floor with JC and Niang... but that's why he's a tough fit.

In the G league he averaged a couple steals and blocks per game as a center and anchored a great G League defense... I know... I know its the G League but thats why we signed him. You might have to bring him up higher rather than dropping and funneling to him but he has a chance to help on defense more than TB does.

We chose to go drop big... it isn't a forced thing. We have options. We sucked at executing on Murray I agree, but even if we just mixed coverages a little more it would add some unpredictability. If Quin couldn't get the players to execute it that is on the players but doesn't absolve Quin either.
 
toddychurch said:
This is exactly what I've been saying, but some people on here thought it was crazy. There is a reason why high school players become Blue Chippers and get scholarships to the big college basketball schools: they have skills, attributes, athleticism, vision, smarts, whatever that make them more appealing for coaches to coach and mold into players. Because of the one and done system some of these Blue Chip guys leave early based on bad advice or over-confidence and are either drafted lower than they expected or not drafted at all. These are the guys we should be trying to develop, especially if they are only in their early 20's.

Here's a small list to start with for those who always ask for such things:
Trevon Duval, Duke, 22 years old 6'2" point guard
Marques Bolden, Duke, 22 years old, 6'10" center
Moses Brown, UCLA, 20 years old, 7'2", center
Kobi Simmons, Arizona, 23, 6'5" point guard

There are a few others who are young Blue Chip recruits within the last five years or so with the physical profiles who can potentially develop into decent bench/role players. In my opinion, we should only have three projects, at most, on the team at a time though. I like the idea of having solid veterans run the bench unit. This year the Jeff Green, Ed Davis and Mudiay signings weren't the greatest, but Green and Davis were solid and Mudiay is a potential development project who, if well-developed, has the size and physical attributes to be a good bench role player.
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We just have a tendency to draft players with tweener bodies that don't really have a NBA position. What positions do Niang, Lyles, Bradley and Grayson play in the NBA? They are either too small for one and too slow/unathletic for the other. Bradley is not strong enough to play as a NBA center and lacks the mobility/explosiveness to play as a PF. Niang is too slow at SF and too small at PF. Allen is too small for SG and lacks the lateral quickness to play PG.
To make up for the lack of size you gotta have quickness, strength or both. And vice versa. That's what we call a proper physical profile of a NBA player. Players who don't fit that profile will always struggle to stay on the floor of a NBA game no matter how much “development” they go through.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Vonleh and Dozier may have played for us.

Morgan only played backup center in like two games this year... unless it was garbage time. Overall he had a grand total of like 20 minutes as a center with non-garbage time lineups... those lineups had absurdly high net ratings. So it may not have been the answer but it was effective in a small sample.

Locke did a deep dive on TB. He basically gets targeted as much as any player in the league and got an F on rim protection. Its hard when he shares the floor with JC and Niang... but that's why he's a tough fit.

In the G league he averaged a couple steals and blocks per game as a center and anchored a great G League defense... I know... I know its the G League but thats why we signed him. You might have to bring him up higher rather than dropping and funneling to him but he has a chance to help on defense more than TB does.

We chose to go drop big... it isn't a forced thing. We have options. We sucked at executing on Murray I agree, but even if we just mixed coverages a little more it would add some unpredictability. If Quin couldn't get the players to execute it that is on the players but doesn't absolve Quin either.
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Dozier would have played for us but he was also part of their rotation till Harris came back. Vonleh sucks ***. His only okayish season was with Knicks and he isn't a good defender at all.

I remember Morgan getting chances at 5 and then getting yanked because he wasn't an answer defensively. There were a few games he committed and 1s in quick succession. I agree that he would be a better defender than Bradley if we played switching or high pressure defense but who is going to accompany him? And don't say Brantley or Oni. I like the guys but they are not worth the trade-off.

Bradley isn't a good fit with JC or Niang but he is the best one. That just sucks.

What were our options? Our best bet was to make Murray a passer but he could always find Jokic and reset for a hand off.
 
Okay I don’t think they’d do it idk, their front office sucks...

Terry Rozier for Bogey. Only doing it if we can move Conley or if Rozier is okay coming off the bench for a year...but he’s got a few inches on Conley, shot over 40% from 3 this year on 6.7 attempts, is a far superior passer and defender to Bogey...think I’d like this as I think we need two way players who can dribble and shoot. And I think he’d fit in far better than Conley with Don and Ingles on the court. His contract is very similar to Bogey’s and maybe most importantly, he’s 26 and fits in with our timeline far better.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Vonleh and Dozier may have played for us.

Morgan only played backup center in like two games this year... unless it was garbage time. Overall he had a grand total of like 20 minutes as a center with non-garbage time lineups... those lineups had absurdly high net ratings. So it may not have been the answer but it was effective in a small sample.

Locke did a deep dive on TB. He basically gets targeted as much as any player in the league and got an F on rim protection. Its hard when he shares the floor with JC and Niang... but that's why he's a tough fit.

In the G league he averaged a couple steals and blocks per game as a center and anchored a great G League defense... I know... I know its the G League but thats why we signed him. You might have to bring him up higher rather than dropping and funneling to him but he has a chance to help on defense more than TB does.

We chose to go drop big... it isn't a forced thing. We have options. We sucked at executing on Murray I agree, but even if we just mixed coverages a little more it would add some unpredictability. If Quin couldn't get the players to execute it that is on the players but doesn't absolve Quin either.
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Not that I'm a TB fan, but he must get more ticky-tacky fouls called on him than any player I have ever seen.
 
Some are saying we are not evaluating Conley fairly. Sure, he is a good player, just a terrible fit with the Jazz. What more evidence do you need than when the Jazz went on that torrid streak during mid-season, Conley was injured. As they say, case closed.
 
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