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Trade Confirmed: Jazz get jack for Bogey

Handlogten's Heros said:
Well its a fact homie... if THT opts in to his deal next year its because he proved he isn't worth 10M a year... if we exercise Shamet's option its because he outplayed his annual figure. If you think THT has more overall potential than Shamet that is cool... but realize him showing that potential means he getting paid or walking... which puts a big *** cap on his "upside".
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I'm really confused as to why THT playing so well that he becomes worth more than his current contract is a bad thing.

We could lose him, or we could be the team that gets to keep him. I'll take that over having an overpaid 3pt specialist.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I'm really confused as to why THT playing so well that he becomes worth more than his current contract is a bad thing.

We could lose him, or we could be the team that gets to keep him. I'll take that over having an overpaid 3pt specialist.
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Because he is either going to bail or reset his contract to market value... or most likely... he sucks and drains 10M from the cap space you say we are saving. It severely limits his upside. We could let some other team keep him and take the potential downside and still have the potential to sign him at a market rate the following year... maybe he doesn't chose us unless he is familiar with us... I get that... but you think he is taking a discount to stay here if he plays well? Eff no... he will go to the highest bidder... just like he would if we let Indiana make that deal.

Shamet is easily a $5M a year player even if he doesn't improve at all. THT is a G League player if he doesn't improve... both guys will make 10M a year for the next two years.
 
I wonder what the Piston's fans are thinking. This isnt exactly good for them either, though, not bad..........just "why"?
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Because he is either going to bail or reset his contract to market value... or most likely... he sucks and drains 10M from the cap space you say we are saving. It severely limits his upside. We could let some other team keep him and take the potential downside and still have the potential to sign him at a market rate the following year... maybe he doesn't chose us unless he is familiar with us... I get that... but you think he is taking a discount to stay here if he plays well? Eff no... he will go to the highest bidder... just like he would if we let Indiana make that deal.

Shamet is easily a $5M a year player even if he doesn't improve at all. THT is a G League player if he doesn't improve... both guys will make 10M a year for the next two years.
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I dont give a **** if he doesnt take a discount. The Jazz will have a more likely chance to sign him if he plays well here, that's a damn fact, than they would if he wasnt here.

If he plays great, great. If he sucks *** or is just mediocre this year, whatever. Either way he has more upside than Shamet. I'm not saying he is better than Shamet or that I would bet on him being better than Shamet, but the Jazz's position lets them take that gamble relatively risk free.
 
Jokes on all of you guys. Bogey probably gives them a few more wins so they're not on the bottom (where we want to be)
 
Here is my theory...

- Miami would do a 2023 pick but required Duncan in the deal... which is really tough but I think Robison can improve his value and we are over-valuing our future cap space... so I'd prolly do it over the Detroit deal.
- Phoenix would do it but was only offering a 23 pick... not a 24 pick... and we'd have to take Shamet.
- Danny overvalues KO a bit because he is familiar with him and Danny/Ryan don't want to stink as bad as OKC, Orlando, etc. so we are doing a half tank job. KO is also the type of player that can help a guy like Sexton have driving lanes and is kind of a high post hub type of guy that can pair well with a lot of different lineup looks. So those guys might be helped quite a bit and it might make them look better or improve their value.
- We saw that it would likely be a late 2023 pick we were adding and did the thing where we say "we don't want too many picks in one draft" and chose a worse option that had some financial benefits.

I'd be willing to bet large sums of money that if KO is healthy all year he will be on the roster next year. Which is fine... but this is a move that is short changing the tank... we were already in the 30ish win range with the roster as is. We wanted to move vets for no returning on court value to really bottom out. KO is the type of player a ****** team can sign with its excess cap space (just like Detroit did). This is not a good move.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I dont give a **** if he doesnt take a discount. The Jazz will have a more likely chance to sign him if he plays well here, that's a damn fact, than they would if he wasnt here.

If he plays great, great. If he sucks *** or is just mediocre this year, whatever. Either way he has more upside than Shamet. I'm not saying he is better than Shamet or that I would bet on him being better than Shamet, but the Jazz's position lets them take that gamble relatively risk free.
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Its not risk free at all... Its 10M in dead cap space and two years of having to watch his ***. That's some high risk ****.

The risk free option is letting him play elsewhere... and if he is good you sign him to a market rate contract (exactly what he would get). Slightly increasing our odds of keeping him should he become a good basketball player isn't worth the cap space or the fact we likely could have got a second or two for Bev.

You are also more likely to overpay a guy you develop because of sunk costs (see Exum, Dante)... you may bid against yourself and end up keeping him for more than his non-Utah market was.
 
A couple of fun facts. KO and Zeller were first round picks in the same draft and Lee was taken one pick ahead of Elijah Hughes. I wonder if this means they have a landing spot for Conley or the Jazz just waive Lee.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Its not risk free at all... Its 10M in dead cap space and two years of having to watch his ***. That's some high risk ****.

The risk free option is letting him play elsewhere... and if he is good you sign him to a market rate contract (exactly what he would get). Slightly increasing our odds of keeping him should he become a good basketball player isn't worth the cap space or the fact we likely could have got a second or two for Bev.

You are also more likely to overpay a guy you develop because of sunk costs (see Exum, Dante)... you may bid against yourself and end up keeping him for more than his non-Utah market was.
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Again, nothing you are saying changes my mind about the potential of THT being much much higher than Shamet.

I accept all the downsides/risk for the shot at developing a unique talent and having an increased odds at retaining him.
 
rjfan said:
I'll go as far as say that the main reason for not doing the same trade (2 Lakers frp), but with Beasley instead of Conley would be to save Ryan Smith money this year (Lakers would still need to be interested on doing that, but...)
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1000% if we can save 5M instead of take on $5M it is a huge difference because we are right at the tax. But you let Danny and JZ work your way out of the tax later with other moves.

This move just smells of a half tank... which is not the route we should take.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Again, nothing you are saying changes my mind about the potential of THT being much much higher than Shamet.

I accept all the downsides/risk for the shot at developing a unique talent and having an increased odds at retaining him.
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I really want to push you to becoming the #1 THT fan so when he is bricking threes off the side of the back board I can troll you.

I'm not as mad at the Bogey/Bev trades as I probably should be... I'm in a good mood today... I think we short changed ourselves and will leave it at that I guess.

I think there is another set of trades coming based on how andy and others are talking... but it might be like JB, Stanley, Dok, into other teams space type of deals. Lee can also be re-routed separately into someone's space. Apparently the Zeller/Potter signings haven't been made official yet so those may happen after this and other trades happen.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
1000% if we can save 5M instead of take on $5M it is a huge difference because we are right at the tax. But you let Danny and JZ work your way out of the tax later with other moves.

This move just smells of a half tank... which is not the route we should take.
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I really don’t see it as a half tank. Olynyk is not moving the needle for us.
 
I like Saben Lee he may be part of the value here... is a steals/deflections god. Can't shoot straight yet. He has two years on his deal with the final year a team option... I will say he is worth a second in this deal... I will say the money savings is worth two seconds... and now call this deal Bogey for KO and three seconds and make peace with it.
 
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