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Trade Confirmed: Jazz get jack for Bogey




cowhide

Well-Known Member
So Ainge is human after all. This makes no sense basketball wise. I think other teams are starting to play hard ball with Ainge after getting a boatload of draft picks for DM and Rudy.
 

Tony Jones

Well-Known Member
2020-21 Award Winner
It's actually been reported that the Jazz did have some teams offer them a 1st for Bojan. The Suns offered a package that included a first but wanted Bogey and Vanderbilt, other teams like the Heat offered a 1st but wanted the Jazz to take back long-term salary and the Jazz weren't willing to do that.
Phoenix offered a first but it was heavily protected, only had one year (23) that had a chance to convey (would have gone to seconds after) and the Jazz would have had to give back Vanderbilt, which they weren’t going to do
 

LogGrad98

Well-Known Member
Contributor
2020-21 Award Winner
Phoenix offered a first but it was heavily protected, only had one year (23) that had a chance to convey (would have gone to seconds after) and the Jazz would have had to give back Vanderbilt, which they weren’t going to do
Thanks for the clarification my man. Don't be a stranger! We're all losing our minds here.
 

idiot

Well-Known Member
Probably nobody cares, so I'll just say this once (and I'd rather not get involved in a whole bunch of back-and-forths on this -- I'll save that for my Bolmaro support):

I like and respect a lot of the contributions of people on here. I think your ideas are well thought-out and provide real value to the forum.

But I have to admit that I have a tough time with some of the assumptions that are sometimes made in the heat of reaction to trades/transactions:
  • The Jazz clearly took the worst deal (maybe purposefully so, or at least because they were too emotionally involved)
  • We know what other teams were offering and it was clearly better than what we took; (or its close cousin): we easily could have gotten *** from Team Y instead of the deal we made
  • The Jazz didn't do their homework
  • Etc.
I don't mind the debates about whether it's better to take on long-term salary now or whether we have too much quality on the team to properly tank. I don't mind the debates about whether it's better to keep Bogey for now rather than do the KO trade. But these rush to judgments about what we could have had (and what the market must have been willing to give us) before reliable details are out there ... I just don't see the point.

I know this won't change anything and I know it's more entertaining to have everyone flying off the handle about these things. So I'll just go back into my corner now.
 

ONE LOVE

#Baby_Talk
Staff member
Alright, so I actually think I figured out what happened here. It is of course context-dependent, but I would argue it is especially context-dependent:

I. The Jazz are operating under this basic framework ("The Plan"):
-A. The want to spend as little actual cash as possible during this era.
-B. So they are trying to get as close to 90% of the cap as possible (for those that don't know, teams are required to pay a minimum of 90% of the cap on player salaries. This means teams are throwing away utility if they have cap commitments below that figure or spending cash if they are above it).
-C. Danny Ainge has incredible power, only technically less powerful than Smith but in reality almost equally powerful (he is the alternate governor, after all)

II. As it stood and basically continues to stand:
-A. If all players on the Jazz with player options opt-in for '23-'24, they are at ~$105 million. This is important for calculation since the Jazz don't control if the players opt in or out, so to be conservative, they plan on them opting in.
-B. If the Jazz exercise the team option to keep Beasley next year, they are damn close to that 90% of the cap (~$121 million)

III. So, the operating parameters on a Bogey deal were:
-A. Maintain at least the option to get close to the 90% of the cap figure or below for next year
-B. Acquire some kind of utility; draft assets ideally, at least if deemed of sufficient quality while considering criterion A.

Reports indicate that in the prospective Phoenix or Miami deals, the Jazz would've had to take on longterm salary to get the draft assets, which violates one of the operating parameters. We're not ownership, and that's their prerogative. Fine. What about the Lakers deal? We'll come back to that.

The overarching operating framework (section I.) then kicks in, whereby they try to satisfy all criteria as much as possible (save CASH, maintain or enhance flexibility, satisfy Ainge). So they find the Detroit deal which does so (saves cash, gives a mostly-unguaranteed team option which you can argue could provide at least increased optionality, and Ainge gets one of his guys).

So now we come to the Lakers. Contrary to a lot of the narrative about him that reigns after he makes a great deal, I think there is a lot of evidence that his pride is often misconstrued as patience, and that that takes the lead in decision-making. Reports indicate that the Jazz basically could (/should) have satisfied ALL criteria above (I - III) by consolidating players and gotten ONE probably-unprotected 1st round pick later in the decade. But Ainge demanded TWO! And the first rule when working with Danny Ainge is when he sets a price, he only minimally budges. There are no more deals to make after that one, so the argument that he has to maintain negotiating integrity for the next deal is pretty hollow reasoning. Maybe the Lakers make the same calculation about JC that is premised above, so they want the Jazz to take back greater salary in the deal which has big cash ramifications this year (maybe not, though). So Danny's pride probably ruled the day because he didn't think he was getting enough back, went and found a pet that saved Ryan cash, and they moved on.

Where this gets frustrating to me is that without taking THT, there are fewer constraints on salaries that go beyond this year, and there's the possibility that JC would've been included in the deal to the Lakers, too. And Vanderbilt. But Ainge has a boner for THT, Vanderbilt, and Olynyk, so they stay.

Summary: Jazz should've taken the Lakers deal but didn't either because of cash implications this year, Danny's pride, or both; and the Jazz are planning on keeping Beasley (but are equally happy that he has a team option).
Man I loved reading this post, so well thought out & structured, and it read like a story I love it.

EXCEPT when you concluded that we shouldn't have taken the THT deal as it hampered us getting the Lakers pick(s). So we got THT from the Lakers correct? So the deals are from the same team! Don't you think had the JC/Bogey/Beasely for 1-2 picks been on the table at the time we made the THT deal, Ainge wouldn't have taken that deal instead?

Maybe the Lakers were never going to give up those picks to begin with (they still haven't).

With the training camp approaching, Ainge sensed this and just went ahead and took the THT deal instead.
 

Elizah Huge

Respect All, Fear None
Contributor
Phoenix offered a first but it was heavily protected, only had one year (23) that had a chance to convey (would have gone to seconds after) and the Jazz would have had to give back Vanderbilt, which they weren’t going to do

You’re telling me it was top-25 protected for multiple years?
 


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