I don't necessarily agree about trading Mike but I do agree something needs to change in our starting and closing lineup. Trading for 7th or 8th man just isn't going to move the needle enough. We need defensive help in our starting lineup.
Trade deadline discussion
- Thread starter Jingled
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I don't necessarily agree about trading Mike but I do agree something needs to change in our starting and closing lineup. Trading for 7th or 8th man just isn't going to move the needle enough. We need defensive help in our starting lineup.
jom2003
Well-Known Member
I was counting from 2011 but OK. Well first burks is not a legit starter. He only started less than 20% of the games in his career. He's starting for Knicks only because Kemba is sidelined by injuries. Kemba's had some issues with Thibs and got benched earlier. But when he's playing again he clearly shown he's the starter, and AB belongs to the bench. He's currently serving as the placeholder and will give the starting role back as soon as Kemba gets back. And guess how many game AB started for the Knicks last season when they didn't have Kemba? Five. That's neither "starter" nor "legit".Draft record back to 2009, 12 years, before trades is here.
Utah Jazz draft history - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Best picks are definitely Rudy and Donovan; third best is absolutely Hayward.
Probably Alec Burks is 4th, I'd say, then maybe Hood. Josh Hart doesn't count because we traded him for Tony Bradley. Neither does Prince, who we traded for George Hill. Neither does Tyler Lydon, who we traded with Trey Lyles for Mitchell, which might be the greatest heist of the last ten years. And neither do Dieng or Shabazz Muhammad, whom we traded for Trey Burke; that's probably a wash.
If you eliminate those folks in favor of the players we traded for and Gobert, whose pick we bought, the Jazz made the following lottery picks since 2009.
2010: Gordon Hayward
2011: Kanter and Burks
2014: Exum
2015: Trey Lyles
2017: Mitchell
I'll say we batted .500. We got lottery quality out of three of those. Two are stars and Burks is legit starter. Kanter and Lyles are backups. Exum was a bust.
Overall on first round picks since 2009:
Maynor
Hayward
Kanter
Burks
Burke
Exum
Hood
Lyles
Mitchell
Gobert
Bradley
Allen
Dok
Rotation NBA players: 10/13 (cutting Maynor (who, in fairness, lasted five years), Exum, Dok. The rest are all, indisputably, right now in NBA rotations.)
Starter quality NBA players: 4.5/13, maybe?: Mitchell, Hayward, Gobert, Burks. Maybe Allen or Kanter or Hood; meh.
Star quality: 3/13.
My conclusion: not great lottery batting average, but not terrible overall.
And Burke and Bradley are not in NBA rotations. I don't consider guys who get DNPs and only see minutes during garbage time or injuries as rotation players. Would you consider Butler and Doke as part of our rotation? Same for Kanter and Hood. Their days in the league are probably numbered.
As for our lottery hit rate, you forgot to count Burke from 2013. If you take out Haywood and count in Burke, that makes it 1/6, with DM being our only lottery hit. That's not good.
Jaylen Brown > Tatum
jom2003
Well-Known Member
Paul George is Tatum's ceiling
jom2003
Well-Known Member
As for draft, I would also look at players draft position versus their actual performance. Like if you are to do a 2013 redraft, would you consider Burke the 9th best player in that draft class? Would you look back and see Lyles as the 12th best player out of that 2015 draft class?
If they perform far off their actual draft positions, they are busts.
If they perform far off their actual draft positions, they are busts.
jom2003
Well-Known Member
Conley is like Milwaukee's Bledsoe. They saw an opportunity to upgrade him to Jrue and pulled the trigger. Not sure if there would ever be an opportunity like that for us.
Same story I've been saying for years. This team has good talent, but it's not constructed well. It doesn't work together to make a title contending team.
The biggest issue is our starting line up. Jingled makes a good point. Getting a 7th or 8th man in the rotation aint going to cut it.
When we signed Conley we put ourselves in a bind. Mike, Don, Royce, Bogey, Gobert is not good enough to beat the Warriors or Suns.
Someone has to be upgraded. The line up is too small, and not athletic enough to win a chip. Royce is the weakest link, and playing way too much as is it.
We need a taller, stronger, bigger 3. Royce off the bench as a super energy sub is the best answer.
There are other options but the involve trading Bogey, or Mike and I don't see the front office doing that.
LoPo
Well-Known Member
Conley for Smart is the type trade that both teams look at and understand why it makes sense.
Why for Boston: they need a roster shakeup like we do. Conley upgrades their starting lineup. Brings them poise and leadership. Smart has kind of run his course there.
Why for Utah: we desperately need a dog on the perimeter. We need an edge that's sorely lacking. There are some pretty big savings starting next year (Smart makes $6 million less next year). Since Hernangomez can be an expiring, he could be flipped for more help.
Many people speculate that Smart will get traded, but he isn't eligible for a trade until January 20th. It would be nice to trade Clarkson for Smart, but I don't think Boston goes for that.
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Why for Boston: they need a roster shakeup like we do. Conley upgrades their starting lineup. Brings them poise and leadership. Smart has kind of run his course there.
Why for Utah: we desperately need a dog on the perimeter. We need an edge that's sorely lacking. There are some pretty big savings starting next year (Smart makes $6 million less next year). Since Hernangomez can be an expiring, he could be flipped for more help.
Many people speculate that Smart will get traded, but he isn't eligible for a trade until January 20th. It would be nice to trade Clarkson for Smart, but I don't think Boston goes for that.
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exactly. Mike, Don, and Royce are so soft on defense. If Royce has to stay (jesus christ) then one other option is upgrading the 1. Conley hasn't proven he can even make it through a playoff run yet.
We need some toughness in the starting line up. So soft.
LogGrad98
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I have always liked Ingram, but he is prone to disappearing and to being lazy, both on defense and offense. He settles for way too many mid-range jumpers and long 2's and doesn't always give a consistent effort. But if we could add him without breaking the bank I would do it.
LogGrad98
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This. The focus really needs to be on the playoffs. There is really no move, other than moving one of the big 2 (DM, Gobert) for a hodge-podge of crap, that would seriously affect our regular season success, especially if the move was made with an eye on the playoff picture.