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Trade Gobert

candrew said:
Yes, a couple times - just last August coming back from Ocean Grove. My wife loves it.

I thought for sure you'd be in AC this weekend spending my tax money, lol.
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Haha. Never been to the convention. Not once. I'm actually not NJEA either.

Since I brought up restaurants, ever been to Via45 in Red Bank? Drew's and Via are my two faves in this area right now.
 
candrew said:
After Hayward and Hill left I thought it was laughable when people here just assumed Gobert was going to continue being the offensive force he was at times last year - as if his scoring was done in a vacuum. Clearly his offensive success last year was a byproduct of The Jazz offense (at times) clicking on all cylinders. It was pretty apparent then and glaringly obvious now.

However, it's the personification of loser thinking to trade your best piece when it is surrounded by mediocre pieces.
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Quin's Murderface said:
This is one of the most nonsensical takes I've seen about gobert. He doesn't create open shots for guys? Are you kidding me? That's like his main offensive positive. Every time he rolls to the rim the whole defense sags in to try to stop it and that creates shots for others. The problem this season is that they don't really have to guard Rubio and Favors isn't stretching the floor enough to really make teams pay. Obviously a team with Rudy is ideally constructed with 4 other shooters. But that isn't a knock on Rudy, that's just taking advantage of what he brings to the table.
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That is not what they are doing this year. They are not sagging off much. When he sets the screens they are staying between him and the basket and stopping the guy he screens for from getting all the way to the rim. Teams seem to have adjusted to the lob game from the Jazz, and if he gets the ball on a non lob he is a non threat and guys run back to their man. They used to switch those screens now they don't, and it's stopping the lob game and because he can't do much with the ball it's eliminating him as a threat without sagging off of shooters.

So in other words he really is not creating open shots for other guys, and he doesn't create any offense for himself.
 
gregbroncs said:
That is not what they are doing this year. They are not sagging off much. When he sets the screens they are staying between him and the basket and stopping the guy he screens for from getting all the way to the rim. Teams seem to have adjusted to the lob game from the Jazz, and if he gets the ball on a non lob he is a non threat and guys run back to their man. They used to switch those screens now they don't, and it's stopping the lob game and because he can't do much with the ball it's eliminating him as a threat without sagging off of shooters.

So in other words he really is not creating open shots for other guys, and he doesn't create any offense for himself.
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Great insight!
 
If the Jazz play better than expected over the next 4-6 weeks without Gobert, I'd be, and I hope the Jazz would be willing to shop him. If they can get a few, nice, young pieces with high ceilings and draft picks, I'd hope they'd pull the trigger too. Gobert is my favorite player too. Sadly, to be an NBA championship style team, I feel you do not have to build around a defensive-god big-man in today's game.
 
gregbroncs said:
That is not what they are doing this year. They are not sagging off much. When he sets the screens they are staying between him and the basket and stopping the guy he screens for from getting all the way to the rim. Teams seem to have adjusted to the lob game from the Jazz, and if he gets the ball on a non lob he is a non threat and guys run back to their man. They used to switch those screens now they don't, and it's stopping the lob game and because he can't do much with the ball it's eliminating him as a threat without sagging off of shooters.

So in other words he really is not creating open shots for other guys, and he doesn't create any offense for himself.
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Teams are running under the screen with Rubio (not with the other guys and you'll notice that when other guys run PnR with Rudy it looks a lot like last year) and daring Rubio to take shots that he is bad at. Rubio can't put pressure on the rim at an NBA average level, and he can't make teams pay from deep. The result of that is that the defenders can cheat to Gobert and make the action much more difficult to produce a good shot for him. But even with that there are still plenty of times where there is a team rotation down to guard Rudy and it produces an open 3. On top of that Rubio is apparently terrible at throwing lob passes. They are always behind or get picked off because the defense is set.

Rubio is the reason that the PnR isn't working, with a small dose of bad spacing because of the lineup. You can overcome being a bad shooter if you can get to the rim, but you can't be bad at both things. The one thing that Favors can do with Ricky is that he can play a pick and Pop game where Ricky seems a bit more comfortable making that kind of read. Of course a mid range shot is not very efficient, and it takes the player out of rebounding position as well. Favors played well last game, but the Nets were playing a small lineup.

But I guess the main point is that Rudy is still creating the conditions to get open 3's, but Ricky's anemic PnR ability is making it less frequent. After the first couple games he just stopped passing to Gobert at all in those situations.
 
Quin's Murderface said:
Teams are running under the screen with Rubio (not with the other guys and you'll notice that when other guys run PnR with Rudy it looks a lot like last year) and daring Rubio to take shots that he is bad at. Rubio can't put pressure on the rim at an NBA average level, and he can't make teams pay from deep. The result of that is that the defenders can cheat to Gobert and make the action much more difficult to produce a good shot for him. But even with that there are still plenty of times where there is a team rotation down to guard Rudy and it produces an open 3. On top of that Rubio is apparently terrible at throwing lob passes. They are always behind or get picked off because the defense is set.

Rubio is the reason that the PnR isn't working, with a small dose of bad spacing because of the lineup. You can overcome being a bad shooter if you can get to the rim, but you can't be bad at both things. The one thing that Favors can do with Ricky is that he can play a pick and Pop game where Ricky seems a bit more comfortable making that kind of read. Of course a mid range shot is not very efficient, and it takes the player out of rebounding position as well. Favors played well last game, but the Nets were playing a small lineup.

But I guess the main point is that Rudy is still creating the conditions to get open 3's, but Ricky's anemic PnR ability is making it less frequent. After the first couple games he just stopped passing to Gobert at all in those situations.
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I think Ricky's flaws are exaggerated in our offense. If we had playmaking wings or a playmaking four it would help a ton. Teams can close out to our shooters without much any bad repercussions. Basically, Ricky's guy can chip at Rudy... and so can everyone else's guy. Add in that Ricky is good at the pocket pass but grabbing that pass in a highly congested lane is not Rudy's strength and the Ricky/Rudy PnR is just an epic fail. Leads to nuclear turnovers, where Rudy is rolling to the rim and now can't get back in time to affect anything.

Our offense won't work with Ricky, Rudy, and Favs on the floor... not sure just removing Favs will change much... it sucks, but we knew the outcome was a possibility.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I think Ricky's flaws are exaggerated in our offense. If we had playmaking wings or a playmaking four it would help a ton. Teams can close out to our shooters without much any bad repercussions. Basically, Ricky's guy can chip at Rudy... and so can everyone else's guy. Add in that Ricky is good at the pocket pass but grabbing that pass in a highly congested lane is not Rudy's strength and the Ricky/Rudy PnR is just an epic fail. Leads to nuclear turnovers, where Rudy is rolling to the rim and now can't get back in time to affect anything.

Our offense won't work with Ricky, Rudy, and Favs on the floor... not sure just removing Favs will change much... it sucks, but we knew the outcome was a possibility.
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Which is why there was a healthy contingent of fans that weren't down with the deal.

What this makes clear is that as long as Gobert is here, Ingles must also as he is far and away the best at playing with Gobert on the team both as a distributor and floor-stretcher, in addition to being able to do those things as a 4 (this is aspect is seriously worth going deeper into, IMO).

Rubio's good enough that I think he can learn and adapt his passing, but unclogging the lanes will still be critical in making it work.

If you can trade Rubio, though, I would just throw Mitchell in as the starting PG (assuming another significantly better one isn't coming back).
 
NUMBERICA said:
Which is why there was a healthy contingent of fans that weren't down with the deal.

What this makes clear is that as long as Gobert is here, Ingles must also as he is far and away the best at playing with Gobert on the team both as a distributor and floor-stretcher, in addition to being able to do those things as a 4 (this is aspect is seriously worth going deeper into, IMO).

Rubio's good enough that I think he can learn and adapt his passing, but unclogging the lanes will still be critical in making it work.

If you can trade Rubio, though, I would just throw Mitchell in as the starting PG (assuming another significantly better one isn't coming back).
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The second a perimeter-based 4 checks into a game, then, if I'm the coach of the jazz, I make sure that for every one of those minutes, I've got Ingles or Johnson at the 4.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Which is why there was a healthy contingent of fans that weren't down with the deal.

What this makes clear is that as long as Gobert is here, Ingles must also as he is far and away the best at playing with Gobert on the team both as a distributor and floor-stretcher, in addition to being able to do those things as a 4 (this is aspect is seriously worth going deeper into, IMO).

Rubio's good enough that I think he can learn and adapt his passing, but unclogging the lanes will still be critical in making it work.

If you can trade Rubio, though, I would just throw Mitchell in as the starting PG (assuming another significantly better one isn't coming back).
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I hadn't watched enough Ricky in Minny to really know. I think if he was a little more under control and we ran Thabo at the 4 it works better than it does now.

I don't think there is a deal out there for Ricky because he's so hard to fit in... so for better or worse i think hes ours.
 
Et tu Brute said:
Celtics are nice - but they are not going to win it all. They know that.
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Then they obviously shouldn't bother going the way they are and should start finding a tank commander immediately. Perhaps they would give us Irving for Rubio as well as your trade..just to make the trade scenario a bit more stupidly balanced. He is a perfect stealth tank commander.
 
This team is only going to get better from Gobert to Hood down to DM, plus it looks like we will be in the Lottery come draft time. And a slew of great glue guys in the support system. DM could be an all world player in two three years on both ends of the court in the mold of Leonard. I've never been more encouraged in the outlook of this team, and anyone that doesn't see Hood as part of the core is nuts!! I also didn't even mention Exum, who looked to be improving his game before the injury.


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