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Trey Burke

When the game’s best athletes can’t stay in front of someone..... go ahead and called that someone “elite”.
 
NAOS said:
At his peak, John was fassst. He also changed speeds and direction really well. And the important part was that, at any direction or speed, he had incredible coordination (cf. one-hand, off-the-dribble passes, etc.)
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Yeah, that is my point. People generally don't bundle coordination and one-hand passes as part of athleticism. That is why you need to define the terms before you make the assessment.
 
NAOS said:
When the game’s best athletes can’t stay in front of someone..... go ahead and called that someone “elite”.
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Is that on court performance, or is that athleticism? Or are they the same thing?

Most people would say that Jeff Hornacek, even at end of his career, was amazing at staying in front of someone. And he was playing on one leg and no one would call him an elite athlete.

f you say performance and results are the same as athleticism, then the discussion can be awfully confusing.
 
silesian said:
Yeah, that is my point. People generally don't bundle coordination and one-hand passes as part of athleticism. That is why you need to define the terms before you make the assessment.
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They should bundle teh **** outta them.
 
silesian said:
Is that on court performance, or is that athleticism? Or are they the same thing?

Most people would say that Jeff Hornacek, even at end of his career, was amazing at staying in front of someone. And he was playing on one leg and no one would call him an elite athlete.

f you say performance and results are the same as athleticism, then the discussion can be awfully confusing.
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At his peak, Stockton was elite in terms of athleticism and on-court performance.

I’ll let you fix peoples’ broken eyeballs and terms.
 
NAOS said:
At his peak, Stockton was elite in terms of athleticism and on-court performance.

I’ll let you fix peoples’ broken eyeballs and terms.
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If you don't tell us what you mean by athletic or elite, you can say it all you want and it is pretty much meaningless. You might as well say "Stockton has bombiquishisness"
 
Eh, for most people "elite athleticism" means "do they dunk a lot?" It's a moronic standard, but it is what it is.

One of the most athletic guards of all time was Danny Ainge. NCAA player of the year, played in the NBA and pro baseball (Jordan couldn't even do that.). I think he was all state in football as well. He was also a scratch golfer. That is a resume that nobody else can match. Most people wouldn't consider him "athletic" because he didn't "dunk on people."

By a real objective standard, Stockton was an athletic freak with monster sized hands and a motor that wouldn't quit.
 
I think everyone has their own definition of athletic.
For me it boils down to basically 4 things. Hops, speed, agility, strength. With most of my weight placed on speed and hops.
That's how I choose to define it. Each person chooses their own criteria though.



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fishonjazz said:
I think everyone has their own definition of athletic.
For me it boils down to basically 4 things. Hops, speed, agility, strength. With most of my weight placed on speed and hops.
That's how I choose to define it. Each person chooses their own criteria though.



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In football, a potential wide receiver could have all of those 4 traits, but he needs to be coordinated while expressing the top end of all those things. Otherwise, he can’t be agile through contact, or catch a bloody pass.

There is no adequate standard for athleticism that doesn’t include coordination whilst in long, high-intensity intervals of activity. Otherwise, there’s no application for the other stuff.
 
silesian said:
If you don't tell us what you mean by athletic or elite, you can say it all you want and it is pretty much meaningless. You might as well say "Stockton has bombiquishisness"
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Bro, I’m fully aware of the necessity — at some level, and some point — of defining terms. But I think I’ve already been pushed further into this discussion than I really cared to. And I think Stockton’s ATHLETIC resume speaks for itself; and that the people who are confused about this can either snap out of it and look at the evidence before applying bad terminology to what they see, or pound sand.

Evidence proceeds theory and description.
 
NAOS said:
In football, a potential wide receiver could have all of those 4 traits, but he needs to be coordinated while expressing the top end of all those things. Otherwise, he can’t be agile through contact, or catch a bloody pass.

There is no adequate standard for athleticism that doesn’t include coordination whilst in long, high-intensity intervals of activity. Otherwise, there’s no application for the other stuff.
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Ya I'm just going off what I think of as athletic but I'm not saying it's correct.

If a guy can run a 4.2 forty and have a 48 inch vertical then to me he is athletic even if he can't catch a ball. He just is unable to apply that God given athleticism in a way to cash in on some money in a sport. Athleticism for me is mostly god given, born with it physical traits.
That's just what I think of when I think of athletic and athleticism.

Which is totally different than what I think of when I think of an actual athlete.

An athlete can be slow and unable to get off the ground but wouldn't be athletic to me.

I'm fully aware that I'm an idiot and make no sense btw.

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