Trump Pulls Out

[The Thriller]

Of the INF treaty without discussing it with our NATO allies or advancing an alternative plan seems like yet another handout to Putin and blow to western interests.

You’d think a large contingent of both republicans and democrats could agree to oppose Trump on this. But even folks like Romney seem to have fallen in line.

I grew up learning that nuclear holocaust was awful. So I’m just wondering what the reasoning is here. If Russia really is violating the treaty, why don’t we sanction the **** out of them? Instead, we recently eased sanctions. By pulling out of the treaty we erase the rules of the game and return to a nuclear arms race free for all. I’m not sure how we benefit by Trump’s pulling out of the INF. Do you know?

Thoughts?

 

[JazzGal]

It feels like a bad idea to me. My entire childhood contained the knowledge that Russia could blow us up at any time. We were never confused as to who the enemy was.

Sent from my moto z3 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Getting Traded]

It feels like a bad idea to me. My entire childhood contained the knowledge that Russia could blow us up at any time. We were never confused as to who the enemy was.

Sent from my moto z3 using JazzFanz mobile app

But, a lot of the Cold War talk was just bluff. The theory of Mutually-Assured Destruction for the most part prevented the nuclear holocaust, though it was possible that mistakes could be made, as the book, Fail-Safe, showed. But to put us on such an edge again is totally unacceptable. This should be grounds for impeachment.

 

[gandalfe]

But, a lot of the Cold War talk was just bluff. The theory of Mutually-Assured Destruction for the most part prevented the nuclear holocaust, though it was possible that mistakes could be made, as the book, Fail-Safe, showed. But to put us on such an edge again is totally unacceptable. This should be grounds for impeachment.

I feel like Grounds for Impeachment is (or should be) the name of the espresso stand in the Capital Building.

 

[Alfalfa]

Trump only listens to the worst kinds of people (because he is one of them). In this case, it's the neoconservatives, like John Bolton, who want the US to be able to threaten China with short and medium range nuclear missile deployment in that part of the world.

The sooner we vote this trash administration out, the better.

 

[Keefe]

I wish his dad had pulled out.

 

[The Thriller]

Trump only listens to the worst kinds of people (because he is one of them). In this case, it's the neoconservatives, like John Bolton, who want the US to be able to threaten China with short and medium range nuclear missile deployment in that part of the world.

The sooner we vote this trash administration out, the better.

But where would we even base those missiles? I don’t think South Korea or Japan want a bunch of American nukes based in their countries just so we can have a pissing contest with China. Somehow, I don’t think starting a nuclear arms race against both Russia and China ends up well for us.

 

[Stars Fan]

But where would we even base those missiles? I don’t think South Korea or Japan want a bunch of American nukes based in their countries just so we can have a pissing contest with China. Somehow, I don’t think starting a nuclear arms race against both Russia and China ends up well for us.

This is why I really think this is a bad move. I have an intimate history with the INF treaty. As a young USAF lieutenant I was stationed in Holland and Germany as part of the ground launch cruise missile (GLCM) forces. My tour of duty in Holland was cut short because we signed the INF and I finished out the assignment in Germany. In both countries there were regular protests at the base gate to remove these missiles, and the Army's Pershing II missiles, from Europe.

We are not going to put U.S. nukes back in western Europe, the politics during the cold war divided the people in the countries that hosted them. Today the societal division would be even worse. Europe does not want our nukes. South Korea hosting nukes is not going to happen, and forget about Japan with our history there.

We have nothing to gain by pulling out of the treaty. Nothing.

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[Stars Fan]

I feel like Grounds for Impeachment is (or should be) the name of the espresso stand in the Capital Building.

It's "Capitol Grounds"

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[One Brow]

Of the INF treaty without discussing it with our NATO allies or advancing an alternative plan seems like yet another handout to Putin and blow to western interests.

You’d think a large contingent of both republicans and democrats could agree to oppose Trump on this. But even folks like Romney seem to have fallen in line.

I grew up learning that nuclear holocaust was awful. So I’m just wondering what the reasoning is here. If Russia really is violating the treaty, why don’t we sanction the **** out of them? Instead, we recently eased sanctions. By pulling out of the treaty we erase the rules of the game and return to a nuclear arms race free for all. I’m not sure how we benefit by Trump’s pulling out of the INF. Do you know?

Thoughts?

To my understanding, Russia violating the terms of the INF has been a problem since well before Trump. I am mixed on this decision. There is little practical benefit to a treaty that one side just ignores, but there is important symbolic benefit.

 

[Stars Fan]

To my understanding, Russia violating the terms of the INF has been a problem since well before Trump. I am mixed on this decision. There is little practical benefit to a treaty that one side just ignores, but there is important symbolic benefit.

There is admittedly little value in a one sided treaty, but there is the value of using it to insist on compliance, and in the event of refusal,to insist on inspection of the missiles in violation. The US had, at one time,a robust inspection team that would go to the USSR to inspect the missile sites to ensure compliance. My understanding is that Russia had offered to let the US come to inspect the missiles that we claim are not in compliance. The US supposedly got the Europeans to agree to take a hard line on the based on the possibility of getting them to come back into compliance.

This sound bite might answer those wondering what's in it for Putin/Trump...another wedge between the US and NATO.

Talking head guy (Jon Wolfsthal, former director for non-proliferation at the National Security Council)
" So I actually give high marks to the Trump administration. They got the NATO allies to support the idea that Russia was violating this treaty - something the Obama administration was unable to do - and got alliance unity in confronting Russia. Over the last three months, we've seen a series of Russian proposals to display the violating missile, to have joint transparency so that they could reassure us these missiles weren't in violation.

And the U.S., instead of pursuing them, said nope, doesn't matter. We're out of the treaty because you're cheaters unless they're all destroyed immediately. And so we're going to squander that unity. And what Russia really wants more than a military capability is a divided NATO. They want to see the United States separated from our European allies.

And, with our withdrawal, there are a lot of Europeans saying, well, wait a second. We backed you in the hopes that you could save this agreement, but you don't really seem to be trying to save it. And we're going to see these fractures in Europe come back."

For the whole article, short one, here is the link: