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Turkey opens its bases for US and coalition forces in fight against Isis

As Kurdish defenders held off Islamic State militants in Syria’s border town of Kobani, US defence officials said that Turkey will let US and coalition forces use its bases, including a key installation within 100 miles of the Syrian border, for operations against Islamic State (Isis) militants in Syria and Iraq.-The Guardian
 
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heyhey said:
Turkey opens its bases for US and coalition forces in fight against Isis

As Kurdish defenders held off Islamic State militants in Syria’s border town of Kobani, US defence officials said that Turkey will let US and coalition forces use its bases, including a key installation within 100 miles of the Syrian border, for operations against Islamic State (Isis) militants in Syria and Iraq.-The Guardian
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Very contradictory things happening. Last month Kerry was saying that Turkish boots on the ground was immensely needed. So the Turkish parliament approved the permit to that along with/including the allowance of foreign forces on her lands. Only the AKP and the nationalist parliamentarians voted in favor. Kurdish parties rejected strongly citing that it was aiming PKK and all but not ISIS. Erdoğan was also very eager to join to the coalition after the approval and his USA trip. Later however he suddenly started to demand going after Assad as the primary condition.

A few days ago, Kerry declared that no one in Kobane wants Turkish soldiers in there so other measures should be considered primarily. Now they say the US and Ankara has agreed about the use of the bases but there isn't any thing like that in Turkish media. The foreign ministry has stated that there is no agreement to open any base. However, they are like-minded with the US about training and equipping some Syrian militants.

Meanwhile, the main concern of the US seems to be Baghdad rather than being related to Kobane. The US army started to use the Apaches against ISIS and it's an indicator that ISIS now indeed became a real threat to Baghdad. Otherwise the US wouldn't take the risk of closer air warfare because that choppers are obviously a lot more vulnerable than the fighter jets.
 
Enes CanTear You Apart said:
Very contradictory things happening. Last month Kerry was saying that Turkish boots on the ground was immensely needed. So the Turkish parliament approved the permit to that along with/including the allowance of foreign forces on her lands. Only the AKP and the nationalist parliamentarians voted in favor. Kurdish parties rejected strongly citing that it was aiming PKK and all but not ISIS. Erdoğan was also very eager to join to the coalition after the approval and his USA trip. Later however he suddenly started to demand going after Assad as the primary condition.

A few days ago, Kerry declared that no one in Kobane wants Turkish soldiers in there so other measures should be considered primarily. Now they say the US and Ankara has agreed about the use of the bases but there isn't any thing like that in Turkish media. The foreign ministry has stated that there is no agreement to open any base. However, they are like-minded with the US about training and equipping some Syrian militants.

Meanwhile, the main concern of the US seems to be Baghdad rather than being related to Kobane. The US army started to use the Apaches against ISIS and it's an indicator that ISIS now indeed became a real threat to Baghdad. Otherwise the US wouldn't take the risk of closer air warfare because that choppers are obviously a lot more vulnerable than the fighter jets.
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The apaches also allow them to have a better real time understanding of their target. The jets are more removed and I imagine it is easier to make a mistake. It really is a natural development now that the battle lines are more fluid.


The contradictory stories thing does seem weird. You wouldn't have a link to one of those Turkish stories would you? (preferably english language if not I could use google translate)
 
heyhey said:
The apaches also allow them to have a better real time understanding of their target. The jets are more removed and I imagine it is easier to make a mistake. It really is a natural development now that the battle lines are more fluid.
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What I'm afraid of is, ISIS taking down one of those. They have many anti-air weapons and they are certainly a threat to Apaches. A possible hit by ISIS would give them a great morale victory and they could recruit people easier. Plus the pressure from the US public on the US army to not mess with ISIS would increase. It might not affect the Iraq operations much but Syrian side of the things could get affected negatively.

heyhey said:
The contradictory stories thing does seem weird. You wouldn't have a link to one of those Turkish stories would you? (preferably english language if not I could use google translate)
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There are many Turkish sources but I found a BBC link that says more or less the same thing so I'm going to give that one. Just know that the Turkish sources are a bit more definite and with some propaganda of the government.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29591916
 
I think Turkey has made the wrong choice in prioritizing combating the PKK over supporting the KDP. Diminishing the PKKs influence by aggressively and openly supporting Barzani and the KDP would have been a more effective strategy imo. Now a whole new generation of Kurds is being radicalized. This might be good for Erdogan"s ambition but it's bad news for Turkey.

Massoud Barzani, president of the Kurdistan Region, said Turkey remained a “friend” despite its failure to open a supply route for Kurdish military aid to reach the besieged Syrian town of Kobane.

In a weekend interview with Sky News Arabia, Barzani expressed disappointment that Ankara had not taken a stronger position against Islamic State but he acknowledged Turkey sent an arms shipment after the Kurdish Region was attacked by ISIS in early August “but they asked us not to make it public.”
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https://rudaw.net/english/kurdistan/131020141
 
heyhey said:
@ ectya

Would you be opposed to Turkey allowing KRG Peshmerga through Turkey to fight ISIS? Let them be the boots on the ground? Maybe with a little Turkish artillery support. I read that Barzani has made an official request for Turkey to allow them to. It seems to me that Barzani and the KRG are much more moderate than the PKK. The KRG is also heavily dependent upon Turkey both economically and in international politics. Would it not be wise to enhance Barzani's influence in Syria?
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I forgot about this thread. Finally Turkey let the Peshmerga forces to Kobane. I think it's either a result of the US pressure or that government doesn't want the US to arm the Kurdish forces anymore, especially the PYD group which Turkey clearly see as the same with PKK despite the different viewpoint of the US.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/20/turkey-allows-peshmerga-forces-to-travel-to-kobani

https://rudaw.net/english/middleeast/20102014

The sad thing is, if the government would have done this earlier, we probably wouldn't lose our 50 people in the Kurdish protests.
 
Enes CanTear You Apart said:
I forgot about this thread. Finally Turkey let the Peshmerga forces to Kobane. I think it's either a result of the US pressure or that government doesn't want the US to arm the Kurdish forces anymore, especially the PYD group which Turkey clearly see as the same with PKK despite the different viewpoint of the US.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/20/turkey-allows-peshmerga-forces-to-travel-to-kobani

https://rudaw.net/english/middleeast/20102014

The sad thing is, if the government would have done this earlier, we probably wouldn't lose our 50 people in the Kurdish protests.
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Yeah I saw that. I really don't know why it didn't happen earlier. If the Peshmerga liberate Kobane that should increase Barzani's influence there and the refugee's inside Turkey can go home. If Kobane falls Ocalan's influence will increase and Turkey will have 200,000 refugees that are sympathetic to the PKK(to say the least) inside her borders.
 
heyhey said:
Yeah I saw that. I really don't know why it didn't happen earlier. If the Peshmerga liberate Kobane that should increase Barzani's influence there and the refugee's inside Turkey can go home. If Kobane falls Ocalan's influence will increase and Turkey will have 200,000 refugees that are sympathetic to the PKK(to say the least) inside her borders.
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Turkey is worried of having a Kurdish state rise up on its borders.
 
Stoked said:
Turkey is worried of having a Kurdish state rise up on its borders.
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They shouldn't be worried about a Kurdish state they should be worried about PKK influence. A Kurdish state on Turkey's border is one of the best things that could happen for Turkey. Turkey has been living with a de facto Kurdish state for years. That state imports goods from Turkey and exports oil. That state has no other country in the region to turn to. That future state would be Sunni Kurd with a Sunni Turkoman and Shiite Kurd minority surrounded by Shiite Persian and Shiite/Sunni Arabs except to the North. Turkey is Sunni Turk with Sunni Kurd being the largest minority. Turkey is a democratic country and a member of Nato. Kurdistan would effectively be a Turkish satellite state. Turkey should not only be vigorously defending the Kurds but should be the first to support a Kurdish state.
 
heyhey said:
They shouldn't be worried about a Kurdish state they should be worried about PKK influence. A Kurdish state on Turkey's border is one of the best things that could happen for Turkey. Turkey has been living with a de facto Kurdish state for years. That state imports goods from Turkey and exports oil. That state has no other country in the region to turn to. That future state would be Sunni Kurd with a Sunni Turkoman and Shiite Kurd minority surrounded by Shiite Persian and Shiite/Sunni Arabs except to the North. Turkey is Sunni Turk with Sunni Kurd being the largest minority. Turkey is a democratic country and a member of Nato. Kurdistan would effectively be a Turkish satellite state. Turkey should not only be vigorously defending the Kurds but should be the first to support a Kurdish state.
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Turkey disagrees. Their fear, from what I understand, is that the PKK will use and Kurdish region on their border as a base of operations for actions against Turkey.

ISIS is new to Turkey and the PKK is their old hated enemy. Demon they don't know versus the demon they do.
 
Stoked said:
Turkey disagrees. Their fear, from what I understand, is that the PKK will use and Kurdish region on their border as a base of operations for actions against Turkey.

ISIS is new to Turkey and the PKK is their old hated enemy. Demon they don't know versus the demon they do.
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This is what is happening now.

Turkey has a choice live with the PYD and PKK or make best friends with the KRG and Peshmerga. I think that the Turkish Gov is coming around to the latter line of thinking. Evidenced by selling Kurdish oil and letting the Peshmerga through their territory. I think the delay is mostly due to internal Turkish politics. There is a significant conservative Pan Turkish/Turkish nationalist segment that I think have a hard time thinking of Kurds as anything other than members of the PKK.
 
WTF Erdogan.

“The PYD does not want the Peshmerga to come,” Erdogan said in published comments. “The PYD thinks its game will be ruined with the arrival of the Peshmerga – their set-up will be spoilt,” he added.


Is this not the best reason from Turkey's perspective to let the Peshmerga in? Shouldn't he be asking the KRG to send as many Peshmerga as they can spare?

https://rudaw.net/english/middleeast/261020141
https://rudaw.net/english/kurdistan/271020143
 
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heyhey said:
WTF Erdogan.

“The PYD does not want the Peshmerga to come,” Erdogan said in published comments. “The PYD thinks its game will be ruined with the arrival of the Peshmerga – their set-up will be spoilt,” he added.


Is this not the best reason from Turkey's perspective to let the Peshmerga in? Shouldn't he be asking the KRG to send as many Peshmerga as they can spare?

https://rudaw.net/english/middleeast/261020141
https://rudaw.net/english/kurdistan/271020143
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I'm going to assume that it might be the retaliation of the government to the gruesome murders of three unarmed Turkish soldiers by PKK in broad daylight in public and the murder of a village guard who was executed by the terrorists while he was tied to a telephone pole, again in a gruesome fashion. The nationalists and many others for that matter had great pressure on the government the last few days because of those, asking why are we going to help the same guys there who are murdering our soldiers in our country.

But to be honest, I don't hold an official opinion anymore on these issues. That's why I settled to only read your little conversation about the PKK with Stoked. Because, I'm getting baffled everyday here. Trying to find out what to think in Turkey and ME is kind of meaningless these days. I'm sure even you are the same way with the conflicting and bewildering news you are reading each new day. Now just multiply that with ten or fifty or something. Because, believe me you can't even imagine the crazy information flow here, every hours, almost even every minutes there are new developments, breaking news, rumors and statements etc that can make you back down on your genuine opinion that you just had or change your understanding of the incidents totally, all of a sudden. And it's a matter of time before you just lose your trust to everyone and every source.
 
Enes CanTear You Apart said:
I'm going to assume that it might be the retaliation of the government to the gruesome murders of three unarmed Turkish soldiers by PKK in broad daylight in public and the murder of a village guard who was executed by the terrorists while he was tied to a telephone pole, again in a gruesome fashion. The nationalists and many others for that matter had great pressure on the government the last few days because of those, asking why are we going to help the same guys there who are murdering our soldiers in our country.

But to be honest, I don't hold an official opinion anymore on these issues. That's why I settled to only read your little conversation about the PKK with Stoked. Because, I'm getting baffled everyday here. Trying to find out what to think in Turkey and ME is kind of meaningless these days. I'm sure even you are the same way with the conflicting and bewildering news you are reading each new day. Now just multiply that with ten or fifty or something. Because, believe me you can't even imagine the crazy information flow here, every hours, almost even every minutes there are new developments, breaking news, rumors and statements etc that can make you back down on your genuine opinion that you just had or change your understanding of the incidents totally, all of a sudden. And it's a matter of time before you just lose your trust to everyone and every source.
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I think Erdogan is much more concerned with his own status than with Turkey's future. I think it is too easy to employ the politics of fear. It is too easy to say "**** the PKK let ISIS kill them all" and forget about the hundreds of thousands of innocent Kurdish women and children in this mess. It is too tempting for a politician to preserve their enemy. To be given incredible leeway and to label anyone that disagrees with the way they do things a traitor or unpatriotic.

The PKK is too valuable for Erdogan.

He reminds me of Netanyahu. They both speak of peace but neither is truly interested in it.
 
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