What's new
By:

Utah = Battle Ground State. Does that change your vote?

BabyPeterzz said:
I hope for the country's sake you are right. We're stronger with a competent conservative voice. But the conservative movement has been in free fall since Reagan, and Trump (i hope) is rock bottom.

Hillary will carry the torch and keep moving us towards the long game goal. Sure she's flawed, we all are. But she's just a step towards where us progressives think the country, and the world, should be heading. Enjoy fighting the tide, as usual.
Click to expand...

I think she will be a step back for progressives. She's so Napoleon.

Bernie would have been a step forward.

also... take that, tide! :)
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
Fixed
Click to expand...

Stoked said:
Actually no it is not a vote for him. Utah being up in the air directly hurts Trump far more than it helps him. Him losing the state to anyone, even a third party candidate, narrows his path to victory and strengthens Hillary.

If anything this encourages 3rd party voting.
Click to expand...
But if johnson wins utah and other states and Hillary and trump split a bunch of states to the point that no candidate gets the necessity 270 electoral votes then the house picks the president for us right?

Im hearing that they would choose whoever the republican is.
 
Gameface said:
If it's close I'm voting for whoever has the best chance to beat Trump.
Click to expand...

BabyPeterzz said:
Interesting take. I agree any vote against Trump hurts him obviously. But since there is no way a 3rd party wins the state, and Hilary is the only viable candidate to defeat Trump, a vote 3rd party reduces her chances of taking the state and defeating him nationally. In addition, Utah still leans R, while 3rd party votes by R's hurts Trump, those vote would be more effective going to Hilary and adding assurance to Trumps defeat.

This speaks to my issue with 3rd party voting during the general election. This idealistic approach to candidates and the election is so short sighted and dangerous. See the 2000 election when Nader steered votes from Gore and basically ushering in the disastrous Presidency of George W. Bush. That vote set the country, and the world, back decades. If we have the chance to avoid a Trump presidency, you do it and don't look back. Those who refuse to believe this fact are naive, egotistical, stubborn, deluded, racist, or just stupid.
Click to expand...
These
#nevertrump
 
fishonjazz said:
But if johnson wins utah and other states and Hillary and trump split a bunch of states to the point that no candidate gets the necessity 270 electoral votes then the house picks the president for us right?

Im hearing that they would choose whoever the republican is.
Click to expand...
The house picks the winner from among the top three delegate winners (so most likely Trump, Clinton or Johnson). The incoming house makes the choice, so anybody who says they are sure the republican would win in that scenario is simply making a guess.
 
fishonjazz said:
But if johnson wins utah and other states and Hillary and trump split a bunch of states to the point that no candidate gets the necessity 270 electoral votes then the house picks the president for us right?

Im hearing that they would choose whoever the republican is.
Click to expand...

That's the thing...that does not worry me any more, or less, than the left nominee winning. Either way we are toast.

So why not support the only silver lining I can see? A chance at laying a foundation in the future for better candidates with better policies?

Also, I fully expect the left to win this election and the small chance that the Libs have to win Utah only enforces that. They are not winning states that really matter like FL and IA.
 
Stoked said:
So why not support the only silver lining I can see? A chance at laying a foundation in the future for better candidates with better policies?
Click to expand...

I think that already happened. This is rock bottom people. Changes will come
 
fishonjazz said:
I think that already happened. This is rock bottom people. Changes will come
Click to expand...

I'm skeptical that it will come in sufficient quantities to really change anything. The chances of it happening are dramatically increased if the disaffected voters on both sides do not fall in line. If they hold true to their convictions. Especially in light of the candidates provided to us.
 
BabyPeterzz said:
Oh yeah? The surge aka bailout. Yeah, genius Dutch boy solution. He panicked and left a mess. I'll concede that it wasn't all his fault, but the moron didn't do anything to help. Thinking strategic ain't his strong suit.
Click to expand...

The bailout was one of the greatest political feats of late. Both the banks and adding Detroit into the mix (the banks paid back all theirs plus Detroit's share). I don't credit GWB one bit for the bailout, but if you want to go that route then realize Bush saved the largest labor union and a huge voting block for the democrats. Our establishment, high finance and intellectual community came up with that cure. What I do credit Bush for is listening to his advisers in 2005 and trying to stop the impending collapse. The Democrats stopped that dead in its tracks under racist charges.

I've covered the above in detail several times here with some solid evidence. If you want to continue hating on GWB over the bailout in the face of that evidence then be my guest. There was a reason pretty much the entire senate was in line for the bailout and were brokering over who got to vote against it because their next election was coming up. "Bailout" Bob Bennett took one for the country and lost that negotiation. That's why he cried when Mike Lee defeated him.

I don't have time now to write this again but if you are really interested in the history of the GR and how GWB tried to stop it in 2005 then will type it up again later.
 
Why do people who liked Bill Clinton think Hillary Clinton will be terrible? Or are most of the people who dislike Hillary disliked Bill's time in office?

I still think the main reason people do not like Clinton is because she is a woman. I dont think it is conscious for some people but it is a big reason. We are still a very sexist country. Which is one of many reasons Trump is doing so well. Most people feel about women the way he does. One of the main things I have heard about Hillary Clinton as a reason they dislike her is she is a liar. Which might be true but this could be made of every politician running. Clinton has been the most honest in her statements during this campaign. Even more honest than Bernie who has the reputation by people to be very honest. Maybe it is because Trump calls her a liar a lot and people are just buying into that. Trump has been one of if not the most dishonest lying politicians ever. His statements during his campaign have been mostly lies. 54% of his statements during his campaign have been lies or what they refer to as pants on fire lies.

Below is their track record from Politifact. I know some people dont like them for being bias but they seem pretty good and people have said they have both a liberal bias and conservative bias so they are probably fine. If anyone has another website that shows different I would love to look at it. I think it is great to get the emotions out of politics and look at the facts more. Which this leads me to think Clinton is one of the more truthful politicians. It seems based on statistics that over the elections in my lifetime that Democrats in general are much more truthful as a group. Not that there hasn't been decent more truthful Republicans.

Trump:
https://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

Clinton:
https://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/

Bernie
https://www.politifact.com/personalities/bernie-s/
 
Broncster said:
Why do people who liked Bill Clinton think Hillary Clinton will be terrible? Or are most of the people who dislike Hillary disliked Bill's time in office?

I still think the main reason people do not like Clinton is because she is a woman. I dont think it is conscious for some people but it is a big reason. We are still a very sexist country. Which is one of many reasons Trump is doing so well. Most people feel about women the way he does. One of the main things I have heard about Hillary Clinton as a reason they dislike her is she is a liar. Which might be true but this could be made of every politician running. Clinton has been the most honest in her statements during this campaign. Even more honest than Bernie who has the reputation by people to be very honest. Maybe it is because Trump calls her a liar a lot and people are just buying into that. Trump has been one of if not the most dishonest lying politicians ever. His statements during his campaign have been mostly lies. 54% of his statements during his campaign have been lies or what they refer to as pants on fire lies.

Below is their track record from Politifact. I know some people dont like them for being bias but they seem pretty good and people have said they have both a liberal bias and conservative bias so they are probably fine. If anyone has another website that shows different I would love to look at it. I think it is great to get the emotions out of politics and look at the facts more. Which this leads me to think Clinton is one of the more truthful politicians. It seems based on statistics that over the elections in my lifetime that Democrats in general are much more truthful as a group. Not that there hasn't been decent more truthful Republicans.

Trump:
https://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

Clinton:
https://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/

Bernie
https://www.politifact.com/personalities/bernie-s/
Click to expand...

Your first sentence is spot on.

The rest? I don't think people hater her for being a woman as much as for all the stench that the GOP has covered her with for two decades now. She has been a main target of the GOP for a long time and it's working well for them.
 
franklin said:
I want to see some GOP senators and congress people change parties out of disgust over the Trump nominee.
Click to expand...

With Trump there is some hope, with Hillary there is NONE. I've seen enough of her doings as the Secretary of State to know that she's not on the side of the People. My .02
 
It would be interesting to see how Utah would vote if Mitt Romney endorses Johnson. They followed him in a big way when he endorsed Cruz. I think a lot of Utahns would jump at the chance at another alternative to Trump if they thought it had any chance of working. I don't believe Clinton has a shot in Utah, even if Trump does shoot someone in Times Square.
 
Jamezz said:
With Trump there is some hope, with Hillary there is NONE. I've seen enough of her doings as the Secretary of State to know that she's not on the side of the People. My .02
Click to expand...

Hope for the destruction of the rich and comfortable majority of the American population by dismantling the astoundingly successful globalization movement.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page
Back
Top