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We Must Be Better Than This

whatthe said:
Are you kidding me? This was just parents asking questions. Why is this even news? A parent should ask questions about everything.
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We always tried to review what our kids were being taught. Caught more than a few cases of blatant indoctrination, such as a teacher that gave the kids an assignment to write to the White House, specifically to explain to then-president W that the war in Iraq was wrong and that he had an obligation to get our troops out immediately. I fought that one because she was trying to instill in a 5th-grader a pre-disposed opinion as being the correct one. Finally threatened to go to the school board so they allowed the kids to express their own opinions on the matter. But **** like that happens all the time. Teachers indoctrinating children is a problem.

So if this was just parents asking for an explanation I see no issue with it. And even if it was parents wanting to white-wash everything for their kids, that is and should be there prerogative to raise their kids and they see fit, even if other people don't like it, and no matter how asinine it is for them to do so. Stupid gonna stupid.
 
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Giving a **** about black people is the lowest bar imaginable and we have people in this thread going out of their way to dominate the thread with their whiffs. Calling it embarrassing is being kind.
 
JazzMan4Life said:
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Mods feel free to move this, but I'd like for everyone to see it.

This is a story that many around the nation will see.
This is how they will view our state and our team.
To me, this is unacceptable. And I would guess many of our players and forum members feel the same.
We must be better than this.
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Just embarrassing. When I get asked about how I liked living in Utah, I always say it was a fun time in my life. I however understand the question and why people really ask me that because they have heard and witness some weird stuff that happens in Utah. The school district should not allow this and they are part of the problem along with the parents who are opting their kids out. So if a black kid doesn't want to hear about white history can they opt out. I highly doubt it. You need history to graduate so perhaps they can tell the parents their kids can opt out but we will not be able to give them a diploma. I know this is ridiculous but so is having the ability to opt out of black history month.
 
LogGrad98 said:
We always tried to review what our kids were being taught. Caught more than a few cases of blatant indoctrination, such as a teacher that gave the kids an assignment to write to the White House, specifically to explain to then-president W that the war in Iraq was wrong and that he had an obligation to get our troops out immediately. I fought that one because she was trying to instill in a 5th-grader a pre-disposed opinion as being the correct one. Finally threatened to go to the school board so they allowed the kids to express their own opinions on the matter. But **** like that happens all the time. Teachers indoctrinating children is a problem.

So if this was just parents asking for an explanation I see no issue with it. And even if it was parents wanting to white-wash everything for their kids, that is and should be there prerogative to raise their kids and they see fit, even if other people don't like it.
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I wouldn't call telling the truth about Iraq Indoctrination and plenty of parents indoctrinate their kids on what they should believe. I agree Parents should be involved about subject matter and teachers should teach critical thinking instead of making assignments that do not require critical thinking.
 
cowhide said:
Just embarrassing. When I get asked about how I liked living in Utah, I always say it was a fun time in my life. I however understand the question and why people really ask me that because they have heard and witness some weird stuff that happens in Utah. The school district should not allow this and they are part of the problem along with the parents who are opting their kids out. So if a black kid doesn't want to hear about white history can they opt out. I highly doubt it. You need history to graduate so perhaps they can tell the parents their kids can opt out but we will not be able to give them a diploma. I know this is ridiculous but so is having the ability to opt out of black history month.
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If you opt out then I think you as a parent would need to attend a class to explain black history. I think that would help.
 
Who wants to join me in protesting? Can we meet somewhere to make a point? Who wants to join me to make a difference? Which schools should we go to first? Monto-ressi?? Where the hell is that place?
 
cowhide said:
I wouldn't call telling the truth about Iraq Indoctrination and plenty of parents indoctrinate their kids on what they should believe. I agree Parents should be involved about subject matter and teachers should teach critical thinking instead of making assignments that do not require critical thinking.
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You do realize that is your opinion on the matter, not a scientific fact, right? You do understand the difference between opinion, facts, and truth, right? There are still many people who believe removing Sadam from power was the right thing to do, even Iraqi citizens themselves, just as there are many who believe it was wrong. This isn't a matter of fact, it is a matter of opinion.

And yes, it is indoctrination when a teacher tells a child what their opinion should be and makes that child complete an assignment for credit that can only get credit if that child espouses the teacher's opinion. The correct way to do this is to look at the situation, any situation, from multiple angles and allow the child to form their opinions themselves. If you believe telling a child in school what to believe and think is just fine then you are part of the problem. It will happen somewhat as the child is exposed to differing viewpoints, and yes including those of their various teachers, but the exposure needs to be differing viewpoints, not just "this is the only way to think or you are wrong and cannot get credit for the assignment". That is wrong.

And yes that happens in the home all the time but that is the parent's prerogative. It is not a teacher's duty to "correct" the parent's "incorrect" opinions.

Now facts are another matter. Yes a teacher should absolutely correct a child of flat-earther parents, for example, or anti-vaxers. But these are not opinions, they are facts. This is what teaching is for.

But a teacher should never force their opinion on a child through a mandatory assignment for credit. If they want to express their opinion that is fine, but it cannot be part of the curriculum.
 
whatthe said:
Who wants to join me in protesting? Can we meet somewhere to make a point? Who wants to join me to make a difference? Which schools should we go to first? Monto-ressi?? Where the hell is that place?
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Come on..who wants to do something?
 
cowhide said:
Just embarrassing. When I get asked about how I liked living in Utah, I always say it was a fun time in my life. I however understand the question and why people really ask me that because they have heard and witness some weird stuff that happens in Utah. The school district should not allow this and they are part of the problem along with the parents who are opting their kids out. So if a black kid doesn't want to hear about white history can they opt out. I highly doubt it. You need history to graduate so perhaps they can tell the parents their kids can opt out but we will not be able to give them a diploma. I know this is ridiculous but so is having the ability to opt out of black history month.
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It is one school, not a "district." No parents "opted out." But besides this, your outrage is completely warranted because we all know that Utah is racist.
 
During the black lives matter movement last summer I challenged my extended family (BIL, SIL, MIL, sisters, etc.), who are generally all white and mostly mormon (about half live in Utah), to actually talk to a person of color about this movement and what it means to them, because pretty much all of my family were stuck on the whole "all lives matter" ********. Only one of them took up the challenge and it completely changed her point of view (my sister, way to go sis!). The others hemmed and hawed and made excuses. I detailed a bit of these conversations with my BIL, a former mormon bishop and current high counselman, who was adamantly against the movement, and who I am coming to find is a heavy racist in flowery clothes. He refused to even acknowledge the need to talk to anyone because his opinions were already "informed". It is very sad really, but very true also, that Utah has a bad track-record with this stuff, and for good reason. Lots of mormons like their white neighborhoods, and white churches, and cover it all in the fact that on their mission they met a black family once. I wish the church leadership itself would do more to break this stereotype and combat this issue in the individual wards and stakes.
 
LogGrad98 said:
During the black lives matter movement last summer I challenged my extended family (BIL, SIL, MIL, sisters, etc.), who are generally all white and mostly mormon (about half live in Utah), to actually talk to a person of color about this movement and what it means to them, because pretty much all of my family were stuck on the whole "all lives matter" ********. Only one of them took up the challenge and it completely changed her point of view (my sister, way to go sis!). The others hemmed and hawed and made excuses. I detailed a bit of these conversations with my BIL, a former mormon bishop and current high counselman, who was adamantly against the movement, and who I am coming to find is a heavy racist in flowery clothes. He refused to even acknowledge the need to talk to anyone because his opinions were already "informed". It is very sad really, but very true also, that Utah has a bad track-record with this stuff, and for good reason. Lots of mormons like their white neighborhoods, and white churches, and cover it all in the fact that on their mission they met a black family once. I wish the church leadership itself would do more to break this stereotype and combat this issue in the individual wards and stakes.
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I have heard recently very very strong statements from top leadership. I think it will get better. It will.
 
The main problem, from a foreigner perspective, is that there is a need to have a “month” to teach kids about systemic inequality and racism. It’s the role of any government to form fully informed individuals with critical thinking. There must be a minimum standard. At least the curriculum should allow students a basic understanding of the roots of institutional racism and inequality (extermination of native americans, slavery, segregation and discriminatory policies, white supremacism, the Japanese concentration camps, etc). Such contents should be ingrained in the educational system. It’s the basis for any citizen. Having only a month (and one that you could opt out) is ludicrous. Letting parents have a major say in some topics is also dangerous (some could oppose sexual education altogether or want a particular version of history to be taught).
 
latin jazz said:
The main problem, from a foreigner perspective, is that there is a need to have a “month” to teach kids about systemic inequality and racism. It’s the role of any government to form fully informed individuals with critical thinking. There must be a minimum standard. At least the curriculum should allow students a basic understanding of the roots of institutional racism and inequality (extermination of native americans, slavery, segregation and discriminatory policies, white supremacism, the Japanese concentration camps, etc). Such contents should be ingrained in the educational system. It’s the basis for any citizen. Having only a month (and one that you could opt out) is ludicrous. Letting parents have a major say in some topics is also dangerous (some could oppose sexual education altogether or want a particular version of history to be taught).
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Well the problem is we are just really waking up as a country and society here to the pervasiveness of systemic racism. And it will take a concerted effort to get this ball rolling. And frankly along the way we will swing too far one way, then too far the other, as we try to figure out how to level the playing field and get to a new status quo that truly values everyone equally. So yes, in some ways it is sad we need a month for this, but in another way it is simply the steps we need to take right now to begin to right the ship. It is like trying to eradicate metastatic cancer. It begins with heavy hitters like chemo and surgery that can seem to be heavy over-kill, then you have to work through the bits that are left, and make smaller moves, until you can say you are in remission. It is a process and will not happen overnight, but we have to start somewhere.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Well the problem is we are just really waking up as a country and society here to the pervasiveness of systemic racism. And it will take a concerted effort to get this ball rolling. And frankly along the way we will swing too far one way, then too far the other, as we try to figure out how to level the playing field and get to a new status quo that truly values everyone equally. So yes, in some ways it is sad we need a month for this, but in another way it is simply the steps we need to take right now to begin to right the ship. It is like trying to eradicate metastatic cancer. It begins with heavy hitters like chemo and surgery that can seem to be heavy over-kill, then you have to work through the bits that are left, and make smaller moves, until you can say you are in remission. It is a process and will not happen overnight, but we have to start somewhere.
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Yeah, agree with this. The USA is so divided right now that you must start somewhere. Having an opt-out is not the place to start.
 
LogGrad98 said:
But a teacher should never force their opinion on a child through a mandatory assignment for credit. If they want to express their opinion that is fine, but it cannot be part of the curriculum.
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Frankly, even expressing an opinion to a group who lacks power to oppose you is questionable. Fortunately, I just teach math, and even then my opinions on math are pretty much never relevant to the class. I make a conscious effort to keep my comments to math in class.
 
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