Weak draft vs strong draft?

[Game6Conley]

] For example, why the hell did Harrison Barnes go back to school for his second year? As a second pick, he would get more guaranteed money and would be set for life. Instead he chose to go back to college and risk a major injury. Obviously I am very happy that we ended up with Enes instead of Derrick Williams, but what happened there?

what happened was the support system around Harrison Barnes wasent Realistic, they convinced him his value could never drop. and didnt even consider the risk of ruin with the injury, because its for the betterment of the "team".

Great post btw

 

[Dr. Jones]

As a Norwegian I don`t get to follow College ball at all. It is hard enough to get up in the middle of the night catching the odd Jazz-game, and if I were to do the same with College basketball, I would get divorced - again. The whole draft thing is very foreign for us Europeans who are used to free markets and see all these restrictions as bizarre. I do like it though, but a lot of things I do not understand. For example, why the hell did Harrison Barnes go back to school for his second year? As a second pick, he would get more guaranteed money and would be set for life. Instead he chose to go back to college and risk a major injury. Obviously I am very happy that we ended up with Enes instead of Derrick Williams, but what happened there?

Some kids just get bad advice. Others here may say otherwise (they value education or whatever), but it's mainly just bad advice from their college coaches and/or others.

 

[Hedda Gambler]

Some kids just get bad advice. Others here may say otherwise (they value education or whatever), but it's mainly just bad advice from their college coaches and/or others.

I get the value of education, but when you are guaranteed like ten million dollars as a #2 pick, you could always go back to school later if you don`t pan out as a bball player.

 

[scootsy]

Some kids just get bad advice. Others here may say otherwise (they value education or whatever), but it's mainly just bad advice from their college coaches and/or others.

as one who is close to the college game... what do you think is actually more valuable: 2nd round selection in draft, 4-5 years in backup role in NBA making relatively great money vs. college degree?

 

[Dr. Jones]

I get the value of education, but when you are guaranteed like ten million dollars as a #2 pick, you could always go back to school later if you don`t pan out as a bball player.

Exactly. I find it funny when the holier than thou crowd preaches finishing college... when we supposedly go to college, mainly, to learn a trade and earn a living.
Irony.

 

[Dr. Jones]

as one who is close to the college game... what do you think is actually more valuable: 2nd round selection in draft, 4-5 years in backup role in NBA making relatively great money vs. college degree?

I would MUCH rather get drafted, spend 4 - 5 years in the league earning more than $2MM and doing what I love, than simply having an education earlier .. and likely taking closer to 40 years to earn that same amount of money in a normal career.

There are kids that do that and also continue on with their education WHILE in the league. Bledsoe and Knight are both doing that..

 

[scootsy]

I would MUCH rather get drafted, spend 4 - 5 years in the league earning more than $2MM and doing what I love, than simply having an education earlier .. and likely taking closer to 40 years to earn that same amount of money in a normal career.

There are kids that do that and also continue on with their education WHILE in the league. Bledsoe and Knight are both doing that..

good to hear. i guess i didn't consider that it didn't have to be an either/or, and am generally skeptical about NBA players going back to school after they finish playing. too skeptical apparently

 

[Hedda Gambler]

good to hear. i guess i didn't consider that it didn't have to be an either/or, and am generally skeptical about NBA players going back to school after they finish playing. too skeptical apparently

If you`re a smart dude, it`s not like you have to go work for McDonald`s when you`re done playing. Working for local media, or getting into coaching or doing agency work is the norm for retired soccer players over here. Playing in the NBA, even though for only a couple of years, should be enough to earn you a living when you`re done. And if it doesn`t, odds are that you`re not smart enough to get through college anyway.

 

[Dr. Jones]

good to hear. i guess i didn't consider that it didn't have to be an either/or, and am generally skeptical about NBA players going back to school after they finish playing. too skeptical apparently

I am skeptical of it as well. Calipari really urges the kids to get their education immediately.. but also to get to the league as fast as possible. He advises them that they need to take classes in finance/economics and general business administration and really sells the career as much as the game. He warns that if they wait to go back to school later, they'll feel they've forgotten too much and the learning curve will be too overwhelming... not to mention that they may have spent all their money for lack of understanding of managing it. He really is awesome at it, but only gets the crap about not caring about education.. when it's actually just that his pitch and coaching style is what sells these one and done players to him.

Sorry, didn't mean to make that about Cal .. it's just the situation I'm closest to.. Oh, and I can tell you that another certain coach, ahem.. Roy WIlliams, takes almost the exact opposite approach. I'll share if anyone's interested.. but it's probably too much info.. lol

 

[scootsy]

I'll share if anyone's interested.. but it's probably too much info.. lol

thanks for the awesome answer! i wanna hear about roy though, plz tell!

 

[Dr. Jones]

thanks for the awesome answer! i wanna hear about roy though, plz tell!

Disclaimer: This is not a UK / UNC thing.. it's a coaching-specific philosophy.

Roy tells his recruits that they are basketball players first and that UNC helps keep their class load to a minimum. He tells them if they stay at UNC a couple or three years vs. just one, that they'll be more ready for the league and even if they slide they'll play longer rather than getting cut after a year or three. UNC is in the middle of a HUGE academic scandal involving fake classes, fake professors, and overall cheating grades. Faculty have admitted to it all on the record. Recruits have bought into that philosophy as well... but it's now crumbling because there is undeniable proof that Roy's 5star recruits underperform ANY other coached 5stars, period.

Think about it.. a kid comes out and goes top 10, there's tons of pressure to have the kid perform.. they come out in the 20's, not near as much. And, again, Roy has a track record of doing FAR less than others with top talent as it translates to league play. The two best, by FAR, is Calipari and Coach K.

 

[The Midnight]

If you`re a smart dude, it`s not like you have to go work for McDonald`s when you`re done playing. Working for local media, or getting into coaching or doing agency work is the norm for retired soccer players over here. Playing in the NBA, even though for only a couple of years, should be enough to earn you a living when you`re done. And if it doesn`t, odds are that you`re not smart enough to get through college anyway.

When you're making a decision whether to declare for the NBA, you're also thinking about your friends, your teammates, your coaches, your team. After playing 1 year together you do form those bonds. And if they're all saying "Stay and make 1 more run a the title" - it's pretty hard to say "No" straight away. Especially if you're the best player on the team and your teammates say "Bro, we need you man".

UK is different, because Calipari had made it clear, he's not in the business of coaching, he's in the business of helping "families". That straight away takes the pressures off the players to stay. It's a high risk/high reward system he's implementing, because it means he'll need to recruit a brand new class each year. But if kids are buying to his "one and done" motto - they'll keep wanting to play for him. It's definitely not the norm though.... and most colleges don't have nearly enough resources to implement that system, that's for sure.

 

[scootsy]

Disclaimer: This is not a UK / UNC thing.. it's a coaching-specific philosophy.

Roy tells his recruits that they are basketball players first and that UNC helps keep their class load to a minimum. He tells them if they stay at UNC a couple or three years vs. just one, that they'll be more ready for the league and even if they slide they'll play longer rather than getting cut after a year or three. UNC is in the middle of a HUGE academic scandal involving fake classes, fake professors, and overall cheating grades. Faculty have admitted to it all on the record. Recruits have bought into that philosophy as well... but it's now crumbling because there is undeniable proof that Roy's 5star recruits underperform ANY other coached 5stars, period.

Think about it.. a kid comes out and goes top 10, there's tons of pressure to have the kid perform.. they come out in the 20's, not near as much. And, again, Roy has a track record of doing FAR less than others with top talent as it translates to league play. The two best, by FAR, is Calipari and Coach K.

wowww.... that's unbelievable. and i thought kids having others take their entrance exams was bad. but fake classes? that isn't a scout or coach cheating, thats university-wide collusion.


that's a traveshamockery.

 

[green]

Exactly. I find it funny when the holier than thou crowd preaches finishing college... when we supposedly go to college, mainly, to learn a trade and earn a living.
Irony.

How much money did Barkley lose going back to USC his senior year? Matt Lienhart as well.

 

[green]

wowww.... that's unbelievable. and i thought kids having others take their entrance exams was bad. but fake classes? that isn't a scout or coach cheating, thats university-wide collusion.


that's a traveshamockery.

Only if you think those kids are going to UNC for the schooling...

 

[Dr. Jones]

How much money did Barkley lose going back to USC his senior year? Matt Lienhart as well.

I hope you're kidding.

But I'm sure you're not.

 

[Gameface]

As a Norwegian I don`t get to follow College ball at all. It is hard enough to get up in the middle of the night catching the odd Jazz-game, and if I were to do the same with College basketball, I would get divorced - again. The whole draft thing is very foreign for us Europeans who are used to free markets and see all these restrictions as bizarre. I do like it though, but a lot of things I do not understand. For example, why the hell did Harrison Barnes go back to school for his second year? As a second pick, he would get more guaranteed money and would be set for life. Instead he chose to go back to college and risk a major injury. Obviously I am very happy that we ended up with Enes instead of Derrick Williams, but what happened there?

I would love to hear PKM's take on the value or lack therof in the draft system the NBA has. Would it be possible to do it completely free-market style where kids just I guess have their agent contact the teams they'd like to play for? I just think the draft might create an illusion of an even playing field when after a few years the big talent can walk away from the small market team that drafted them and sign with the kind of team they wanted to play for in the first place, leaving the small market team back where they started, training raw college talent on how to compete in the NBA...eventually for a big market team.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I would love to hear PKM's take on the value or lack therof in the draft system the NBA has. Would it be possible to do it completely free-market style where kids just I guess have their agent contact the teams they'd like to play for? I just think the draft might create an illusion of an even playing field when after a few years the big talent can walk away from the small market team that drafted them and sign with the kind of team they wanted to play for in the first place, leaving the small market team back where they started, training raw college talent on how to compete in the NBA...eventually for a big market team.

Rather than write a book. I'll just say it would be a total disaster. Big markets would kill off the small markets. Then there would be far fewer pros... which would kill too many kids dreams.. which woupd eventually erode the quality of player...

 

[Gameface]

Rather than write a book. I'll just say it would be a total disaster. Big markets would kill off the small markets. Then there would be far fewer pros... which would kill too many kids dreams.. which woupd eventually erode the quality of player...

Yeah, I see that's the idea behind the draft, but is it really accomplishing what it's supposed to accomplish? Small market teams struggle and big name players usually don't stick with the small market team that drafted them (I just went ahead and made that statement, but maybe big name players actually do stick with their teams often enough. I don't actually know.). So, what if there were salary caps (is it the draft that makes salary caps legal?) and players just contacted teams or vice versa? Yeah, top destinations and top talent are probably going to find each other more often than not, but there are only so many positions per team and only so much salary they can spend.

Does baseball have a draft?

 

[Dr. Jones]

Yeah, I see that's the idea behind the draft, but is it really accomplishing what it's supposed to accomplish? Small market teams struggle and big name players usually don't stick with the small market team that drafted them (I just went ahead and made that statement, but maybe big name players actually do stick with their teams often enough. I don't actually know.). So, what if there were salary caps (is it the draft that makes salary caps legal?) and players just contacted teams or vice versa? Yeah, top destinations and top talent are probably going to find each other more often than not, but there are only so many positions per team and only so much salary they can spend.

Does baseball have a draft?

It could certainly be improved upon, for sure.

What is baseball?