Welcome to 'Murica

[VINYLONE]

Please show me ONCE where I ascribed human characteristics to guns. Also, hoplophobia is not a recognized phobia and has no medical legitimacy. It's a made up term to ascribe a pejorative to people who don't jerk off while playing with their guns. (See, I can be offensive, too!)



I notice you don't deny that he, himself, is a part of the problem.



At the manufacturer level. Have you heard of seat belts?



Boy, you never use scare tactics yourself, do you? And, by the way, how long does it take to see that the "loaded" indicator is up?



Do you think a trigger lock might have let this 3 year old live? (I've said it before, you don't want to get into an anecdote war. You will lose.)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...c511c6-36a1-11e5-b673-1df005a0fb28_story.html



So what's your problem with extending those same reasonable measures nationally?



Statistics show that using a firearm to commit suicide is the most popular method in this country, as well as the most successful method by far (something over 80% success rate, vs <5% with pills). Also, something in excess of 90% of people who survive one suicide attempt never try again. I kind of value human life, and would like to take common sense simple measures to protect people from a rash decision. If someone REALLY wants to kill themselves, they will, but for those who are just having a bad time, or whose girlfriend just left them, making guns a little more difficult to obtain could very easily make the difference.

Yeah, I am not a fan of the NRA and there are many gun owners, like myself, that aren't as well. In respect to the loaded indicator, ALL GUNS ARE LOADED ALL OF THE TIME. Anecdote war? That's not my intent. My point is to show that people are saving their lives on a personal basis every day of every month of every year. There is nothing I can do from my home to help someone with suicidal ideation. I can, however, protect myself and my loved ones if the need arises.

 

[VINYLONE]

Agreed. For example, "hoplophobe," a term you seem to like to spew, doesn't mean a thing.

Fun fact: Charles Whitman visited a single psychiatrist before he climbed the clock tower in '66 and killed 14 people. He had a brain tumor which has been theorized (but can neither be proven nor disproven, of course) to have influenced his actions.

Spew? I use it often to ascribe it to folks that have problems with firearms in ALL instances. I did not know that about Whitman but then again I don't know much about him other than what he is infamous for.

 

[VINYLONE]

Yeah, and if they shoot a kid, well, that kid obviously deserved it for getting in the way. RIGHT?

Safety measures aren't perfect, but that's no reason not to try.

Deserved? No one deserves to die. Well, no innocent person. You're right no measure is perfect. Some firearms come with safety measures, some don't. I think it's up to the firearm owner to purchase whatever firearm he or she feels comfortable with.

Fun fact: I am against the death penalty in all instances.

 

[VINYLONE]

I don't think it's as bad an idea as you are making it out to be.


Everybody has a right to drive cars but they still need to pass a driving test before they are allowed on the road, right? Why not psychiatric test or at least a background check to determine if you're fit to own guns? For sure there are administrative costs involved but what doesn't? A driving test costs money too but people rich or poor still take them.


It's just another idea to consider I just don't like shooting down ideas before they're properly discussed or put in the 'too hard basket'.

Wrong. Driving a vehicle is a privilege afforded to you by the state. The right to defend yourself is a right afforded to you in the US Constitution. Those are two different things. I would also argue that since the right to life is inalienable, the state can't give you that right since they never had it to begin with. Once you were born, you had that right to your life and that right to defend it by whatever means necessary.

 

[BabyPeterzz]

Based on what? Most of these regulations are state mandated so blaming the gun lobby does not really make sense. Here in California, it's ridiculous that amount of hoops I have to jump through and the fees I have to pay in order to get a firearm. And don't get me started on the gun roster and what it does to prices on firearms that are going to fall off the roster.

I'm not sure what you're asking me.

You do know the gun lobby is one of the most powerful lobby's in the country and they not only influence federal law, but state laws as well. I think if the gun lobby is going to site mental health issues as the source of the problems we face, it's only fair that they pay their fair share if they choose to do nothing in terms of further regulation. The gun lobby needs to do more. Period.

 

[Stoked]

I'm not sure what you're asking me.

You do know the gun lobby is one of the most powerful lobby's in the country and they not only influence federal law, but state laws as well. I think if the gun lobby is going to site mental health issues as the source of the problems we face, it's only fair that they pay their fair share if they choose to do nothing in terms of further regulation. The gun lobby needs to do more. Period.

I agree. But we might disagree on what they can do.

But the argument, on the national level, is dominated by extremes. Sadly this is what we are seeing with most debates.

The best solution, imo, is somewhere in the middle and is very involved.

 

[BabyPeterzz]

I agree. But we might disagree on what they can do.

But the argument, on the national level, is dominated by extremes. Sadly this is what we are seeing with most debates.

The best solution, imo, is somewhere in the middle and is very involved.

Once they demonstrate they are willing to meet anywhere near the middle we can talk of whether or not the gun lobby is even taking this issue seriously. Right now, they are concerned with the bottom lines of gun manufactures and those that want unfettered access at the expense of others. The gun control lobby has done nothing but try to find creative solutions that do not include removing the 2nd Amendment. Frankly, gun advocates and the gun lobby has done absolutely nothing in regards to addressing gun violence. I'll reserve the right to place blame on their heads until they come to the table, which they have yet to do.

 

[moevillini]

Based on what? Most of these regulations are state mandated so blaming the gun lobby does not really make sense. Here in California, it's ridiculous that amount of hoops I have to jump through and the fees I have to pay in order to get a firearm. And don't get me started on the gun roster and what it does to prices on firearms that are going to fall off the roster.

oooh, cry harder

I've always wanted to make that post, but never before had the chance. Thanks vinylone. <3


At any rate, you may call those unnecessary hoops that you were required to jump through, but I call them a good start to putting sensible restrictions on firearms purchases.

 

[VINYLONE]

At any rate, you may call those unnecessary hoops that you were required to jump through, but I call them a good start to putting sensible restrictions on firearms purchases.

Sure, restrictions to the law abiding crowd.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/7...crooks-get-guns-from-pals-dont-keep-them-long

I think the criminal class in Chicago are pretty typical.

 

[Miggs]

I'm not sure what the beef is on having tighter, more comprehensive checks in place for people buying guns. If people need to wait a couple weeks then so be it.

I also am not sure why gun owners aren't legally held more responsible when their gun is used (by their son, daughter, etc.) to take, accidentally or not, someone's life. Lock the **** up in one place. The bullets in another if need be. It's really not difficult.

 

[gandalfe]

Based on what? Most of these regulations are state mandated so blaming the gun lobby does not really make sense. Here in California, it's ridiculous that amount of hoops I have to jump through and the fees I have to pay in order to get a firearm. And don't get me started on the gun roster and what it does to prices on firearms that are going to fall off the roster.

Do you not even realize that lobbyists actually work at the state level, as well?

 

[gandalfe]

My point is to show that people are saving their lives on a personal basis every day of every month of every year.

MORE PEOPLE ARE KILLED WITH GUNS THAN SUCCESSFULLY DEFEND THEMSELVES. Find stats to contradict that.

There is nothing I can do from my home to help someone with suicidal ideation.

Except, of course, make it more difficult for them to acquire the most common and most successful method. But you seem to have shown that your fear is more important than someone else's life, so let's just let it go.