Wes' Travel Questions

[♪alt13]

Your post makes it very clear that you consider drinking alcohol nothing but a means of getting **** faced and you don't understand alcohol drinks as a food item.

I don't anymore, but I used to order double jack and coke. I can't get that in Utah. I can get a jack and coke. To you, it seems, you think the complaint is that it takes twice as many drinks to get drunk. That's not it. I don't drink coke normally. I don't like coke. I order a double jack and coke because it tastes better than a jack and coke.

Beer, obviously something I'm into, is not just one thing that you guzzle until you're **** faced. The restriction of 4%abv for beer on tap has many unintended consequences.

It raises the cost of doing business for local microbreweries. Much easier to package beer into a 20 gallon keg than 400 cans and/or bottles. Much easier to ship a truck full of kegs than a truck full of bottles and cans, mostly because you can now fit a few times more stuff on the truck. Much easier for a bar or restaurant to store kegs than bottles and cans. I'm not super concerned about the environmental aspect, but if you use a keg you pour into a reusable glass instead of throwing a bottle away for every beer served. Many people prefer the flavor (it's psychological, but whatever) of draft beer as opposed to beer in a bottle or a can.

It is NOT harder to get **** faced in Utah. The laws don't accomplish anything. They just burden businesses. They just make hosting people from out of state more awkward. I mean a guy comes in, people want the drink they like and they want it the way they want it. So the guy orders the drink he likes, but he's in Utah and now has to be educated on why he can't have his drink the way he wants it.

I don't like it because it's dumb.

Agreed

If you are a non drinker you should at least consider how the laws impact our culinary options. Relaxing these silly laws will mean more restaurants. It would be good for customers, good for businesses, and good for our workforce.

Also starting to repair our reputation as weird would be great for tourism.

 

[Gameface]

Do the regular domestic beers cost more in Utah?

Sent from my A0001 using JazzFanz mobile app

No, not really.

It's sort of a pet peeve of mine but I know a lot of people who drive to Evanston Wyoming to buy beer and 1, they think it's a lot cheaper there but in my experience, in the boarder liquor stores, it's not cheaper at all, 2, they think they are getting significantly stronger beer, when they are usually only getting between 0.2% - 1% more abv. The problem there is that relatively few people are aware that 3.2% in Utah is an alcohol by WEIGHT measurement, but alcohol content is pretty universally measured in alcohol by VOLUME. So what they think is 3.2% beer is actually 4%abv. Bud Light in Evanston is 4.2%abv, Corona is 4.6%abv (that's a very popular one people get there) Budweiser is 5%abv.

 

[LogGrad98]

The laws do not prevent anyone from getting **** faced they make it harder to enjoy certain aspects of drinking. I know some people drink just to get **** faced but most do not. Most drink because they enjoy the drinks and the social aspect with them. Laws like only allowing 4% beer on tap prevent good beers that I like to drink from being on tap (which I like the taste of more) from being served in Utah. Small very spread out liquor stores with limited hours make it so it is a nightmare to go to the liquor store. Parking is awful, the lines are long and options tend to be limited. I can still get drunk but I think most people understand the frustration of jumping through hoops, dealing with excessive waits and lines, and having limited options of something you want. Liquor stores in Utah are very profitable yet they keep trying to make them more sparse and limit their hours more. Many good beers are higher than 4% so if you want that you have to endure the awful liquor stores just to buy beer that is warm. Beer sitting warm for long periods of time lowers its taste. Its also a pain to have to plan ahead if I want to have cold beers. Things like the zion curtain force business to waste money and look silly to out of state people. It hurts and limits their ability to make profits. There are lots of other frustrations with the laws but for me none of those are about not being able to get drunk. One of the main problems is that most of the people making laws about booze it Utah have never drank them and do not understand the culture.

Your post makes it very clear that you consider drinking alcohol nothing but a means of getting **** faced and you don't understand alcohol drinks as a food item.

I don't anymore, but I used to order double jack and coke. I can't get that in Utah. I can get a jack and coke. To you, it seems, you think the complaint is that it takes twice as many drinks to get drunk. That's not it. I don't drink coke normally. I don't like coke. I order a double jack and coke because it tastes better than a jack and coke.

Beer, obviously something I'm into, is not just one thing that you guzzle until you're **** faced. The restriction of 4%abv for beer on tap has many unintended consequences.

It raises the cost of doing business for local microbreweries. Much easier to package beer into a 20 gallon keg than 400 cans and/or bottles. Much easier to ship a truck full of kegs than a truck full of bottles and cans, mostly because you can now fit a few times more stuff on the truck. Much easier for a bar or restaurant to store kegs than bottles and cans. I'm not super concerned about the environmental aspect, but if you use a keg you pour into a reusable glass instead of throwing a bottle away for every beer served. Many people prefer the flavor (it's psychological, but whatever) of draft beer as opposed to beer in a bottle or a can.

It is NOT harder to get **** faced in Utah. The laws don't accomplish anything. They just burden businesses. They just make hosting people from out of state more awkward. I mean a guy comes in, people want the drink they like and they want it the way they want it. So the guy orders the drink he likes, but he's in Utah and now has to be educated on why he can't have his drink the way he wants it.

I don't like it because it's dumb.

Thank you both for the well-thought-out responses. I made it very clear it was a perception from a non-drinker and you both bring up very good points.

I will say though that I know very few people who drink purely for the taste or social aspect (which is fully possible, to be social, without alcohol at all) and not to get buzzed if not full-on drunk. I get that last part too but most of the complaining I get from friends out-of-state centers more around the getting buzzed/drunk aspect. Remember I live out of state and when the conversation comes to Utah it invariably comes down to availability of booze. Maybe everyone in the warehousing industry are just boozers.

 

[Gameface]

This feels like trying to explain to a space alien that doesn't eat food or have taste buds why I like my steak medium rare. His question always comes back to why I want that when I can better meet my nutritional needs with an injection of specially formulated human nuti-pack.

 

[LogGrad98]

This feels like trying to explain to a space alien that doesn't eat food or have taste buds why I like my steak medium rare. His question always comes back to why I want that when I can better meet my nutritional needs with an injection of specially formulated human nuti-pack.

It's not a lot different than trying to explain any preference. Everyone likes different things. I said you brought up some very good points.

 

[Dr. Jones]

My opinion.

The liquor laws aren't all that burdensome.
It's a nuisance that one is not permitted to stop and have a beer on way home from work without ordering food (when you're going home to grill steaks), but meh.

It's really just fun to point out how ridiculously dumb the laws are.

I can order a full-strength micro but not a full strength Budweiser.
I can't order a single 3.2 beer without ordering food, but I can order chips and salsa... and multiple shots of tequila.
I can slam a shot of tequila but I am not allowed to witness the bartender pouring it.

See? Isn't that fun?

 

[fishonjazz]

As an admitted non-drinker, I am still a bit flabbergasted that people get so worked up that it is mildly harder in Utah than elsewhere to get ****-faced. Is it really that big a deal? I mean, can you not, albeit with a few hoops, get enough booze to drink yourself literally to death pretty much whenever you want? This is one thing that, of course as a non-drinker, I never understood. I have had friends go on whole rants about the unbelievably strict alcohol laws in Utah and how it shows that Utah is nothing but a theocracy, yet they say nothing about complete "dry" areas in other parts of the country. I find it very weird.

I agree with you. I don't mind the utah alcohol laws.

 

[fishonjazz]

The laws do not prevent anyone from getting **** faced they make it harder to enjoy certain aspects of drinking. I know some people drink just to get **** faced but most do not. Most drink because they enjoy the drinks and the social aspect with them. Laws like only allowing 4% beer on tap prevent good beers that I like to drink from being on tap (which I like the taste of more) from being served in Utah. Small very spread out liquor stores with limited hours make it so it is a nightmare to go to the liquor store. Parking is awful, the lines are long and options tend to be limited. I can still get drunk but I think most people understand the frustration of jumping through hoops, dealing with excessive waits and lines, and having limited options of something you want. Liquor stores in Utah are very profitable yet they keep trying to make them more sparse and limit their hours more. Many good beers are higher than 4% so if you want that you have to endure the awful liquor stores just to buy beer that is warm. Beer sitting warm for long periods of time lowers its taste. Its also a pain to have to plan ahead if I want to have cold beers. Things like the zion curtain force business to waste money and look silly to out of state people. It hurts and limits their ability to make profits. There are lots of other frustrations with the laws but for me none of those are about not being able to get drunk. One of the main problems is that most of the people making laws about booze it Utah have never drank them and do not understand the culture.

Good post.
Lots of good points in there.

 

[fishonjazz]

Agreed

If you are a non drinker you should at least consider how the laws impact our culinary options. Relaxing these silly laws will mean more restaurants. It would be good for customers, good for businesses, and good for our workforce.

Also starting to repair our reputation as weird would be great for tourism.

Another really good post.

I now hate the liquor laws.

 

[NAOS]

Agreed

If you are a non drinker you should at least consider how the laws impact our culinary options. Relaxing these silly laws will mean more restaurants. It would be good for customers, good for businesses, and good for our workforce.

Also starting to repair our reputation as weird would be great for tourism.

Haven't they gotten rid of the "membership" charge for bar/club entrance? That was the "weird" thing I always heard about from out-of-staters.

 

[Gameface]

Haven't they gotten rid of the "membership" charge for bar/club entrance? That was the "weird" thing I always heard about from out-of-staters.

They have gotten rid of that. When Huntsman was gov we were making some progress. With Herbert we are backsliding.

 

[♪alt13]

Haven't they gotten rid of the "membership" charge for bar/club entrance? That was the "weird" thing I always heard about from out-of-staters.

Off the top of my head

New .05 blood alcohol limit
Heavily restrict the number of liquor licenses
Zion Curtain(7 foot wall separating where drinks are mixed in a restaurant)
A restaurant liquor license means that someone has to order food to get a drink
If I want to order a drink for me and my wife or a pitcher of beer then I have to take her to the bar with me
Brew vies lost its license for showing the infamous porn Deadpool(license was restored)
A proper long Island ice tea is among many cocktails that is illegal to make
...