What are we trying to accomplish?

[fishonjazz]

so what. we got 2 top 3 picks already on this team. full of lottery picks.
either jazz is bad at talent evaluation. or bad at player development.

either way it point s out that jazz will screw up this top 2-3 pick AGAIN!

This draft is much different (way better talent) than the kanter and favors drafts

 

[gomretat]

Nothing has changed. The Jazz are in a youth movement but that doesn't mean players getting minutes regardless of how they produce. Having better players sit while those who don't produce get the majority of minutes is the wrong message on any team. The Jazz are also about saving cap space for players they decide they want long term. Both of these mean a team will have a lot more losses than wins but does not mean they are trying to tank. In fact, most teams that "tank" save that for the last 20-25 games. You don't create a healthy culture by throwing away a season. My guess is the Jazz FO will be delighted if TB is good enough to create more W's and I won't be surprised if they are interested in resigning Marvin if he will come back at the right price.

 

[green]

As far as a few years ago: The Jazz, I think were trying to win it all with Boozer, DWill, Memo. BUT, AK prevented them from doing so, due to salary cap problems.

Then Boozer left and the Jazz went all Cleveland and desperate to keep DWill, hence the Al trade, Bell, letting Matthews walk, etc.

Then Lindsey came aboard and the Jazz prepared to tank, but went with vets last year to make some cash.

Now the tank has happened. Lindsey tried to set this team up to lose, but the problem is, Corbin can't try to lose, his future employment depends on it (with or without the Jazz). BUT, the biggest issue with the tank is this: Burke has developed a lot quicker and is better than we thought.

Now, I'm okay with the vets getting minutes, because I want to protect Burke. He is my centerpiece of the rebuild. I'm okay with Gobert going to the DLeague, and maybe it is because I'm a Utah fan, but you don't want to injure Gobert by playing him too much in the NBA when his body isn't ready. The DL solves this problem. He can play and work on his body at the same time.

Here is the issue: Marvin and Jefferson and Burks are playing better than you thought they would. I think Lindsey has to move 1-2 of those three. Marvin probably gets you ok returns, Jefferson probably gets you a second rounder, and Burks probably gets you the best returns.

The next issue is if Burks gets you the best returns, who do you want your future staring SG to be? Burks or Hayward? If it is Burks, then you move Hayward this year. If it is Hayward, then you move Burks this year. So, you play Burks and Burke together to see how they fit, because Burke is much more valuable to a team than Burks is. Then you trade one of those two. If you still keep winning, then you try to move Jefferson. I don't want to trade Marvin, because I want him back next year. He is the perfect vet to come off the bench and play 3 or 4 at a good price.

It's a process, and you need to tank this year, without killing Burke or trading away the wrong SG.

 

[♪alt13]

As far as a few years ago: The Jazz, I think were trying to win it all with Boozer, DWill, Memo. BUT, AK prevented them from doing so, due to salary cap problems.

Then Boozer left and the Jazz went all Cleveland and desperate to keep DWill, hence the Al trade, Bell, letting Matthews walk, etc.

Then Lindsey came aboard and the Jazz prepared to tank, but went with vets last year to make some cash.

Now the tank has happened. Lindsey tried to set this team up to lose, but the problem is, Corbin can't try to lose, his future employment depends on it (with or without the Jazz). BUT, the biggest issue with the tank is this: Burke has developed a lot quicker and is better than we thought.

Now, I'm okay with the vets getting minutes, because I want to protect Burke. He is my centerpiece of the rebuild. I'm okay with Gobert going to the DLeague, and maybe it is because I'm a Utah fan, but you don't want to injure Gobert by playing him too much in the NBA when his body isn't ready. The DL solves this problem. He can play and work on his body at the same time.

Here is the issue: Marvin and Jefferson and Burks are playing better than you thought they would. I think Lindsey has to move 1-2 of those three. Marvin probably gets you ok returns, Jefferson probably gets you a second rounder, and Burks probably gets you the best returns.

The next issue is if Burks gets you the best returns, who do you want your future staring SG to be? Burks or Hayward? If it is Burks, then you move Hayward this year. If it is Hayward, then you move Burks this year. So, you play Burks and Burke together to see how they fit, because Burke is much more valuable to a team than Burks is. Then you trade one of those two. If you still keep winning, then you try to move Jefferson. I don't want to trade Marvin, because I want him back next year. He is the perfect vet to come off the bench and play 3 or 4 at a good price.

It's a process, and you need to tank this year, without killing Burke or trading away the wrong SG.

I would center a rebuild around our upcoming draft pick. That means first of all losing at all costs and secondly to secure a decent bench. Pgs are a dime a dozen in the NBA and Burke will always be an average starting pg. Curry is an incredible player and his team is in the lotto right now. Don't build around a PG it won't get you results.

 

[candrew]

Now the tank has happened. Lindsey tried to set this team up to lose, but the problem is, Corbin can't try to lose, his future employment depends on it (with or without the Jazz). BUT, the biggest issue with the tank is this: Burke has developed a lot quicker and is better than we thought.

As much as I rag on Corbin you have to acknowledge that he is in a lousy situation. He has no contract next year and he is expected to lose.

When I think of two of the biggest tank jobs of the last 20 years - GS a couple of years ago and San Antonion in 96-97, the head coach got to keep his job the following season. It's entirely possible Corbin will have to go looking for a job next year fresh off a 60 loss season on his resume.

 

[mellow]

Ex: can kanter and favors coexist?

I think the Jazz have found their answer to that question. Favors averages about 32 mpg, Enes averages about 19 mpg in Jazz wins and 30 mpg in jazz losses.

 

[DutchJazzer]

This draft is much different (way better talent) than the kanter and favors drafts

SO!?!?!?
yet
deron williams - cp3 debacle(wheter you agree that deron at the time was the right choice or not, jazz picked the wrong player or sucked at developing the better player)
kawai leanord burks debacle(whether it is talent evaluation or development).
the gordon hawyard vs geroge paul debacle (whether it is talent evaluation or development)
no matter how deep or non deep the draft is jazz track record at either talent evalutaion or talent development is NOT GOD


either way **** TANKING
**** THE DARFT!!!!1!!

start developing the talent WE DO HAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[candrew]

SO!?!?!?
yet
deron williams - cp3 debacle(wheter you agree that deron at the time was the right choice or not, jazz picked the wrong player or sucked at developing the better player)
kawai leanord burks debacle(whether it is talent evaluation or development).
the gordon hawyard vs geroge paul debacle (whether it is talent evaluation or development)
no matter how deep or non deep the draft is jazz track record at either talent evalutaion or talent development is NOT GOD


either way **** TANKING
**** THE DARFT!!!!1!!

start developing the talent WE DO HAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Easy on the Red Bull my friend.

 

[DutchJazzer]

As much as I rag on Corbin you have to acknowledge that he is in a lousy situation. He has no contract next year and he is expected to lose.

When I think of two of the biggest tank jobs of the last 20 years - GS a couple of years ago and San Antonion in 96-97, the head coach got to keep his job the following season. It's entirely possible Corbin will have to go looking for a job next year fresh off a 60 loss season on his resume.

lousy?
if that guy spend his money wisely he would never ever ever ever have to work again.

then again his collection gold watches suggest he did not spend it wisely.
either way its is own fault if he needs a job but cant get one

 

[green]

I would center a rebuild around our upcoming draft pick. That means first of all losing at all costs and secondly to secure a decent bench. Pgs are a dime a dozen in the NBA and Burke will always be an average starting pg. Curry is an incredible player and his team is in the lotto right now. Don't build around a PG it won't get you results.

I answered you in another thread, but I disagree about Burke. How many players in the NBA can take an 1-14 team and go 5-7, even with Favors being injured for some of those games? And probably won't ever get max money? Burke is so valuable. So freaking valuable.

So, yes, I agree that we build around the draft pick. That should be priority #1. But seeing how Burke is 11 games into his career, and there are only 4 PG's I'd take over him, and all four of those have or will get max money and he might not ever get max money...that is valuable, valuable piece.

I'd trade anyone else on this team to lose games before I'd trade Burke.

 

[green]

As much as I rag on Corbin you have to acknowledge that he is in a lousy situation. He has no contract next year and he is expected to lose.

When I think of two of the biggest tank jobs of the last 20 years - GS a couple of years ago and San Antonion in 96-97, the head coach got to keep his job the following season. It's entirely possible Corbin will have to go looking for a job next year fresh off a 60 loss season on his resume.

Pop was the GM of SA, fired the HC, took over the job himself, led the tank, drafted Duncan and the rest is history.

 

[green]

SO!?!?!?
yet
deron williams - cp3 debacle(wheter you agree that deron at the time was the right choice or not, jazz picked the wrong player or sucked at developing the better player)
kawai leanord burks debacle(whether it is talent evaluation or development).
the gordon hawyard vs geroge paul debacle (whether it is talent evaluation or development)
no matter how deep or non deep the draft is jazz track record at either talent evalutaion or talent development is NOT GOD


either way **** TANKING
**** THE DARFT!!!!1!!

start developing the talent WE DO HAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The guy who drafted those players isn't the GM anymore. Burke is proof of that. KOC would have gone with length.