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What does Hayward have to do his rookie season to be considered at least a decent pick?

Three things I want to see his rookie season:

1- Can he learn the Jazz offense plays and defense rotations.
2- Mentally tough enough to handle Sloan screaming, Deron's hazing, Fanz booing, Kobe posterizing, and sitting on the bench behind chucker.
3- Have success in defending bottom tier sf, and success initiating the offense.


Top three cynical:
1- Does he smile while wearing a suit and sitting on the second row?
2- His luggage makes it to all the road games.
3- He learns to drive to Orem.
 
Gameface said:
Holy crap! I like Matthews as much as the next guy, but I figured what we all liked about him was that he wasn't supposed to be any good and he turned out to be a solid player. To think that Hayward isn't going to be any better than Matthews, I don't know. I think you all are just dumping all your disappointment that we didn't get a top 5 pick on him. The more I hear about him the more excited I am that we got him.

The SOB lead his team to the final 4! What were they ranked going in? How many of you had Butler on your bracket in the final 4?

I'll say it again and again.

WINNERS WIN. HAYWARD IS A WINNER.

Now once we offload the team losers and increase the winner to loser ratio on this team we'll be alright. Deron is a winner. Matthews is a winner. Millsap is a winner. Okur is a loser. Boozer is a loser. CJ Miles is a loser. Hayward is a winner. Things are looking up.

*before anyone wants to show me stats to show me who winners and losers are, save it. Losers are very often people with tremendous talents, who often perform well given the right set of circumstances. Winners are people who might lack the natural ability, are in unfavorable circumstances, but find ways to win. There's a difference between being good at something and doing it well and simply being a person who refuses to lose. Okur can lose and go sleep like a kitten, I'm sure. Boozer can lose and be perfectly happy if he got his numbers that night. CJ Smiles is just happy to be where he is. The other guys fight to win and they take it personally when they lose.
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Great post.

Couldnt agree more about the winners and losers thing.
 
mellow said:
Three things I want to see his rookie season:

1- Can he learn the Jazz offense plays and defense rotations.

....in his SLEEP! He probably already knows it better than half the team.....and as far as defensive rotations....he's got to be better than Boozer, Okur, and Korver, simply because the kid WANTS to play defense!


2- Mentally tough enough to handle Sloan screaming, Deron's hazing, Fanz booing, Kobe posterizing, and sitting on the bench behind chucker.

...Sloan won't be screaming at the kid, because he's going to do what he's suppose to do....and not have to be told twice! Kobe posterizing?....well, everybody, especially white guys, get use to that! And he won't be sitting behind chucker for long!

3- Have success in defending bottom tier sf, and success initiating the offense.

....give him 3 weeks....and he'll have that down pat!
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..
 
Waterintowine.jpg
 
Gameface said:
The SOB lead his team to the final 4! What were they ranked going in? How many of you had Butler on your bracket in the final 4?

I'll say it again and again.

WINNERS WIN. HAYWARD IS A WINNER.

Now once we offload the team losers and increase the winner to loser ratio on this team we'll be alright. Deron is a winner. Matthews is a winner. Millsap is a winner. Okur is a loser. Boozer is a loser. CJ Miles is a loser. Hayward is a winner. Things are looking up.
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How can you say it again and again that Hayward is already in the same class of winners as Deron, Matthews and Millsap when he has not yet played a single NBA game. Too many college heroes have turned out to be duds in the NBA. Hopefully Hayward turns out alright but at this point only Deron, Matthews and Millsap are the only real winners on the team. And CJ's not so bad, he's improved too.
 
Gameface said:
Holy crap! I like Matthews as much as the next guy, but I figured what we all liked about him was that he wasn't supposed to be any good and he turned out to be a solid player. To think that Hayward isn't going to be any better than Matthews, I don't know. I think you all are just dumping all your disappointment that we didn't get a top 5 pick on him. The more I hear about him the more excited I am that we got him.

The SOB lead his team to the final 4! What were they ranked going in? How many of you had Butler on your bracket in the final 4?

I'll say it again and again.

WINNERS WIN. HAYWARD IS A WINNER.

Now once we offload the team losers and increase the winner to loser ratio on this team we'll be alright. Deron is a winner. Matthews is a winner. Millsap is a winner. Okur is a loser. Boozer is a loser. CJ Miles is a loser. Hayward is a winner. Things are looking up.

*before anyone wants to show me stats to show me who winners and losers are, save it. Losers are very often people with tremendous talents, who often perform well given the right set of circumstances. Winners are people who might lack the natural ability, are in unfavorable circumstances, but find ways to win. There's a difference between being good at something and doing it well and simply being a person who refuses to lose. Okur can lose and go sleep like a kitten, I'm sure. Boozer can lose and be perfectly happy if he got his numbers that night. CJ Smiles is just happy to be where he is. The other guys fight to win and they take it personally when they lose.
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How many national championships has Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, and Dwight Howard won?

What about Amare, KG, Chris Bosh, D-Wade, Dirk, and CP3?

LOL, just look at the Final Four MVP candidates from last year:

Jon Scheyer, Kyle Singler, Nolan Smith, who the hell are these players?

Lets look at some of the stars from 2005-1985 in the NCAA:

https://www.betting-collegebasketball.com/mvp.php

1985


Ed Pinckney, Villanova


14.0

1986


Ellison, Pervis, Louisville


18.0

1987


Keith Smart, Indiana


17.5

1988


Danny Manning, Kansas


28.0

1989


Glen Rice, Michigan


29.5

1990


Anderson Hunt, UNLV


24.5

1991


Christian Laettner, Duke


23.0

1992


Bobby Hurley, Duke


17.5

1993


Donald Williams, N. Carolina


25.0

1994


Corliss Williamson, Arkansas


26.0

1995


Ed O'Bannon, UCLA


22.5

1996


Tony Delk, Kentucky


22.0

1997


Miles Simon, Arizona


27.0

1998


Jeff Sheppard, Kentucky


21.5

1999


Richard Hamilton, Connecticut


25.5

2000


Mateen Cleaves, Michigan St.


14.5

2001


Shane Battier, Duke


21.5

2002


Juan Dixon, Maryland


25.5

2003


Carmelo Anthony, Syracuse


26.5

2004


Emeka Okafor, Connecticut


21.0

2005


Sean May, North Carolina

I'm willing to bet that most of you don't recognize more than 1/3 of this list.

This "he's a winner because he did well in the NCAA tournament" is completely overrated. HS and College success doesn't mean much of anything in the NBA.
 
I think ultimately Hayward will end up be similar to a small forward version of Jeff Hornacek. A guy plays smart, hard, shoots well, and is much more effective than you would think he should be just by looking at him.

As for this year... as long as improves his jumpshot (shouldn't be a problem since he can work on it full time now) and shows he can compete on defense and the boards, I'll be happy. He's smart enough, has good enough fundamentals, is unselfish, competes hard, and has a good enough work ethic that the other things will take care of itself as he gets more experience.
 
yancey said:
The question should be: "What CAN Hayward do in his rookie season to be considered at least a decent pick?"

The answer is: Nothing.

Matthews earned his spot and represents a guy who Jerry Sloan loves - a guy willing to defend and rebound out of the two spot. He's not as long as Brewer, but gives solid effort all game long. Hayward isn't beating him out.

Korver will resign with the Jazz. Hayward isn't nearly as good a shooter as Korver and won't beat him out for the backup minutes at the two.

He's not going to beat out either Andrei or CJ at the three. Period. Regardless of how bad Miles is at passing the ball or rebounding.
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I disagree with your assumption. I don't think the Jazz wil re-sign Korver. If Greg Miller has shown us one thing, it's that he's willing to sacrifice bit players to save money even if it leaves the Jazz a little less competitive or thinner on the bench (Maynor and Brewer last season).

I've lambasted Miller for last season's trades, especially giving up Maynor. But I'm really not going to be upset IF the Jazz don't re-sign Korver. Yes, he set a 3-pt record. But it wasn't like he took a ton of shots and was a real 6th-man for us. And his FT percentage took a nose dive (below 80%).

Assume the Jazz don't re-sign Korver and they let Boozer walk (no S&T). And the only other moves are re-signing Matthews and Fesenko, and three rookies or low-salary vets to get to a 13-man roster (like Evans, Gaines and Jeffers).

If my calculations are correct, that puts the Jazz pretty close to the $68M projected luxury tax threshold. So resigning Korver would actually cost the team an additional $8-$10M in salary and taxes (assuming his market value is around $4-$5M). Miller ain't gonna spend that kind of money for a backup. Besides, the Jazz don't really need him.

Here's what I see in terms of mins at the 2-3-4:

PF- Millsap (34) AK (14)
SF- AK (20) CJ (18) Honzward (10)
SG - Matthews (34) CJ (14)

Obviously, there are other permutations. Does Koufos get a chance to play some minutes behind Millsap? Then AK plays fewer at PF and more at SF. I actually hope Honzward gets more P/T, but 10 is probably the minimum he gets.

Yes, the Jazz have a thin bench. If someone gets hurt, we're down to seeing a guy like Jeffers, Kosta or Evans come in for extended playing time. But the Jazz don't have a choice. Not until AK's salary comes off the books. Then Utah can use that $17M on multiple players to increase their depth - or perhaps add a starter and a decent backup.
 
kyjazzfan said:
I think ultimately Hayward will end up be similar to a small forward version of Jeff Hornacek. A guy plays smart, hard, shoots well, and is much more effective than you would think he should be just by looking at him. .
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Sigh. After all these years, the Jazz front-office are still looking for the next Next Jeff Hornacek in the post-S&M era.

Blind to the present era of long, athletic SFs like Melo and Durant and that Lebron guy. They confuse Boozer with Malone in an era of 7-foot PFs. And Deron isn't exactly the player Stockton was but that's OK -- he retained a lot of the passing and court vision but he's a crossover-'til-you-fall, dunk-in-your-face bad-*** and our most successful pick since S&M.

For the most part, including recently, a conservative organization lost in the past.
 
Wait, I want to change my answer. He needs to purchase round-trip airfare for me to SLC and get me kick-*** tix to two games. If he does that, he'll have a successful rookie campaign in my book.
 
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