What is more important to this team?

[Twin Towers]

What would you rather see happen in the next year.

Hayward, Burks, Kanter, Favors all develop into legit rotation players we can depend on and we shock the league and make drastic improvements and are in the playoff hunt the same way the Thunder were when they challenged the Lakers in the Playoffs as a 8th seed.

Or tanking and getting Wiggins?

 

[Dr. Jones]

I don't get these absolutes.

The 'core' can gain valuable experience and chemistry together this season while completely missing the playoffs (by a long shot) without proving they suck.

We can add two more great picks from the draft and have cap space to add a VERY good player out of FA.

We could get Wiggins (or Parker, Randle, Harrison, Exum, etc.) and still consider our core a very good core.

 

[The Midnight]

Tank and get Randle.

 

[davidbenoit]

I don't get these absolutes.

The 'core' can gain valuable experience and chemistry together this season while completely missing the playoffs (by a long shot) without proving they suck.

We can add two more great picks from the draft and have cap space to add a VERY good player out of FA.

We could get Wiggins (or Parker, Randle, Harrison, Exum, etc.) and still consider our core a very good core.

The free agency part doesn't get discussed here in depth very often. Yes we are going to have some spending money but I wonder if we'll wait yet another year to spend it since we still won't be contending in '14-'15.

I can see the Jazz using TWO years to develop/evaluate their players (including our '14 pick) while adding a decent '15 pick before using their cap space two summers from now.

By that time we'll have a better feel for the team and they'll be at the stage where a solid FA or two would hopefully put them into contention.

 

[Dr. Jones]

hmmm.. could be. I guess they'll also have to evaluate the fanbase/patience.

 

[Twin Towers]

I am blown away by the logic of some on this board. If we are one of the worst teams this year with this core what makes us think that 1 player is going to change the entire team?
Kobe by himself couldn't get to the playoffs in those years before Gasol.
If we suck this year I don't think a 19 year old is going to save the team.
Could he be a huge part yes but again stars can't do it alone.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I am blown away by the logic of some on this board. If we are one of the worst teams this year with this core what makes us think that 1 player is going to change the entire team?
Kobe by himself couldn't get to the playoffs in those years before Gasol.
If we suck this year I don't think a 19 year old is going to save the team.
Could he be a huge part yes but again stars can't do it alone.

I'm really not trying to be a dick.. but did you read the responses?

It's not the addition of 'one 19 year old guy.'

It's;
- the core being another year experienced
- the core gaining a year of chemistry
- the addition of a very, very good player
- the addition of likely another very good player (GSW)
- the ability to sign up to a MAX player in FA (in a deep FA year)

The core should be viewed as just that. A core. A group of very competent players to compliment a couple other star-type players.

 

[Stifle Tower]

I don't get these absolutes.

The 'core' can gain valuable experience and chemistry together this season while completely missing the playoffs (by a long shot) without proving they suck.

We can add two more great picks from the draft and have cap space to add a VERY good player out of FA.

We could get Wiggins (or Parker, Randle, Harrison, Exum, etc.) and still consider our core a very good core.

Voice of reason. This is precisely what I - among others - have been saying.

Look at Portland last season: Aldridge, Batum, Matthews, Hickson and Lillard. A very good starting lineup, IMO, with three excellent veterans, a rookie of the year and a "weak link" in Hickson who still averaged 13/10. They didn't come CLOSE to making the playoffs with only 33 wins.

Transpose that to the Jazz. Assume Kanter, Favors and Hayward all have great years (comparable to Aldridge, Batum and Hickson). Maybe Burks becomes Wesley Matthews. Can Trey then have a season like Lillard? I'd say none of those scenarios is likely to happen. As good as we THINK Kanter and Favors might be, they haven't been starters. Burks hasn't played significant minutes. And Trey is no Lillard. And the bench is simply abyssmal, every bit as bad as Portland's was last season - unless the team gets major production from Williams and Rush. OK, Jazz can play Burks as the 6th man. But the tradeoff is a weaker starting unit with Jefferson at SF.

I agree with PKM on this one:
1) Jazz can get great production, experience and chemistry from the Core3 (or 4 or 5). Sorry, I'm still not 100% sold on Burke and Burks. Would be pleasantly surprised to see either reach "core" status. But they'll still miss the playoffs.
2) Jazz SHOULD add two very good picks in the draft. Hopefully an all-star caliber prospect with their pick and a solid rotation player in the 22-26 range with the GS pick.
3) Jazz have room to add 1 or even 2 good players in FA. IINM, around $30M falls off next summer (Biedrins, Jefferson, Rush and Williams). Even with new contracts for Favors and Hayward, there's still room to add $15M or so. Just have to leave enough space to sign Kanter and perhaps Burks. But depending on who they select, I think the Jazz can get a comparable player to replace Alec with the GS pick or even their selection in the early 2nd-round. Or maybe Alec is used as trade bait to get a VERY good FA that a rebuilding or cash-strapped team needs to unload.

 

[Zulu]

The jazz set themselves up to be bad this year... Not because our young guys suck, but because they didn't build around the young guys....

They snatched as many assets as they could this summer all in hopes to makes some real noise 3 years from now!!!

Honestly it is refreshing.... You can see the game plan that the front office has and it just gives you chills knowing what our team will be in a few years and many years to come...

 

[Stifle Tower]

And to back up PKM on his reply to TT...
Every team needs a core-8: three or four bigs and three or four guards. Some teams use combo guards, some use combo forwards. The Jazz system has the 4/5 and 2/3 interchangeable and they have generally wanted 2 traditional PG's (so 3,3,2). In any case, 5*48 = 240 total player minutes per game. At 30 mins/per = 8 players. Obviously, some starters will average more, some subs will be in the 18-25 range and there will be a few more players given minutes, especially during the early part of the season or during "garbage" time.

My point is, the Jazz need to concentrate on finding their core-8, then slot in a couple of decent vets for injury insurance + developing rookies + a few scrubs at minimum wage to keep under the tax threshold.

Core starters right now (3): Hayward, Favors, Kanter
Hopeful core players (2): Burke, Burks
Could be a core backup (1): Neto
Intriguing prospect (1): Gobert (4th big). Not a core player, but should get minutes.

Meh: Lucas, Evans, Jefferson, Williams, Rush, Biedrins, Clark.

Jazz perhaps have 6 of their core players. PERHAPS. I think Neto will likely be a serviceable backup PG, but I'm not sold yet on Burke or Burks. Maybe the Jazz just need one more starter, maybe they need two. And this is where the draft and FA (if needed) will come in. Jazz likely get a starting wing in the draft with their pick. They use their second pick to add a solid bench player - perhaps a PF or perhaps another wing, Then they use free agency to add one more player. If Burke doesn't look like the answer at PG, maybe they get Exum or Harrison in the draft. If Burks isn't developing as a solid 6th man, perhaps they use their expiring contracts to trade for a wing at the deadline. Jazz are in a great position right now. And the credit goes to both KOC and Lindsey. They managed the roster, held fast on not signing vets to long-term deals and Lindsey has since acquired more assets. And in that respect, as a HUGE critic of Greg Miller, I have to give him and Gail credit. They really opened their wallets and spent beyond what they had to for 2013/14 when the GS deal came along.

 

[pickledXgrandma]

Underneath the Core you find the men, underneath the men you find....their. . . . nucleus.

 

[Hotdog]

The jazz set themselves up to be bad this year... Not because our young guys suck, but because they didn't build around the young guys....

They snatched as many assets as they could this summer all in hopes to makes some real noise 3 years from now!!!

Honestly it is refreshing.... You can see the game plan that the front office has and it just gives you chills knowing what our team will be in a few years and many years to come...

Your post just gave me the chills

 

[GVC]

The free agency part doesn't get discussed here in depth very often. Yes we are going to have some spending money but I wonder if we'll wait yet another year to spend it since we still won't be contending in '14-'15.

It'll be difficult with extensions/cap holds for Kanter and Burks. If the Jazz plan on keeping Kanter, Burks, Hayward and Favors, next summer will be the last summer the Jazz have cap space (should have roughly $20mm to spend, depending on Gordo's extension/cap hold, the Jazz's draft pick and the salary cap itself).

 

[NUMBERICA]

I don't get these absolutes.

/thread

 

[Twin Towers]

Everyone wants us to be the worst team next year and get wiggins.
Will anyone here be excited about this team if we barely win 20 games?
I keep hearing people say this would be awesome but that would mean our current core is not getting better.

 

[The Midnight]

And to back up PKM on his reply to TT...
Every team needs a core-8: three or four bigs and three or four guards. Some teams use combo guards, some use combo forwards. The Jazz system has the 4/5 and 2/3 interchangeable and they have generally wanted 2 traditional PG's (so 3,3,2). In any case, 5*48 = 240 total player minutes per game. At 30 mins/per = 8 players. Obviously, some starters will average more, some subs will be in the 18-25 range and there will be a few more players given minutes, especially during the early part of the season or during "garbage" time.

My point is, the Jazz need to concentrate on finding their core-8, then slot in a couple of decent vets for injury insurance + developing rookies + a few scrubs at minimum wage to keep under the tax threshold.

Core starters right now (3): Hayward, Favors, Kanter
Hopeful core players (2): Burke, Burks
Could be a core backup (1): Neto
Intriguing prospect (1): Gobert (4th big). Not a core player, but should get minutes.

Meh: Lucas, Evans, Jefferson, Williams, Rush, Biedrins, Clark.

Jazz perhaps have 6 of their core players. PERHAPS. I think Neto will likely be a serviceable backup PG, but I'm not sold yet on Burke or Burks. Maybe the Jazz just need one more starter, maybe they need two. And this is where the draft and FA (if needed) will come in. Jazz likely get a starting wing in the draft with their pick. They use their second pick to add a solid bench player - perhaps a PF or perhaps another wing, Then they use free agency to add one more player. If Burke doesn't look like the answer at PG, maybe they get Exum or Harrison in the draft. If Burks isn't developing as a solid 6th man, perhaps they use their expiring contracts to trade for a wing at the deadline. Jazz are in a great position right now. And the credit goes to both KOC and Lindsey. They managed the roster, held fast on not signing vets to long-term deals and Lindsey has since acquired more assets. And in that respect, as a HUGE critic of Greg Miller, I have to give him and Gail credit. They really opened their wallets and spent beyond what they had to for 2013/14 when the GS deal came along.

I think we need a Core-3.

Kanter
Randle
Andrew Harrison


Then step back and watch them light up the league.

 

[green]

This team either needs to get a top 6 seed or better in the West or be in the bottom. Anything in the middle would be disastrous for this team.