Jazz_junkie
Member
James Harden in a sign and trade? im just curious
What would you guys give up for.....
- Thread starter Jazz_junkie
- Start date
I'd be fine giving up Burks, Jefferson, Foye, any of the die-hard AK worshipers, Dell Schanze, Jon Huntsman, etc. In exchange, I'd be willing to take back any if these Oklahoman celebrities https://daly-tribe.com/Humor/if_celebrities_moved.htm
pickledXgrandma
Well-Known Member
James Hard-on will never don a Jazz jersey
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
Next year, the Jazz only have the four rookie contracts, Marvin Williams and Jeremy Evans under contract to trade.
That settles it, then: Williams and Evans for Harden.
UGLI baby
Well-Known Member
plus repped.
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
Harden's a very good player. When he has Durant and Westbrook taking the burden of the pressure off of him. Elsewhere, I don't think he's a true #1 option. And while we'd improve on the wings, we'd go back to being a sieve in the middle upon Derrick's departure.
Favors to me has limitless potential and could be a much better overall player and a beast. He has top NBA top five players' type athleticism, talent and ability imo. I guess what I'm saying is that in your scenario, we'd lose more than we'd gain imo.
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Agreed on Harden not being a true #1 option. There are maybe 10-15 at any time in the NBA & he's not in that discussion.
My point is as GM I'd give up Favors if I thought it would bring in the piece needed to truly contend for 3-4 years straight. Harden fills only one of 3 needs. Here's to hoping Hayward or Burks fills one instead.
I disagree on Favors having top 5 potential though. His offense is too limited. I'd like to see a Jermain O'neal in 3 years or so, but as good as Jermain was for a few years he was never top 5. I'd take a top 15 Favors over Harden though (with the championship caveat above).
My point is as GM I'd give up Favors if I thought it would bring in the piece needed to truly contend for 3-4 years straight. Harden fills only one of 3 needs. Here's to hoping Hayward or Burks fills one instead.
I disagree on Favors having top 5 potential though. His offense is too limited. I'd like to see a Jermain O'neal in 3 years or so, but as good as Jermain was for a few years he was never top 5. I'd take a top 15 Favors over Harden though (with the championship caveat above).
Guitaro
Well-Known Member
Anytime you do a trade scenario, you have to look at what both teams need and then imagine what they'd ask for in return.
What does OKC need? They just got to the Finals. That is their goal for next season and for many after. Anything less will be a failure for a team that close. Therefore, look at who beat them this year. Miami beat them because outside of Ibaka and Perkins, they're a little thin down low. They need a player who is versatile and can stay with James wherever he goes. Or, they need more big men in general. They also need a veteran point guard in case they don't sign Fisher again. I haven't heard if they did or not. They'd also need a Guard to replace Harden if they did trade him.
What does Utah need? We have good players at every position now. However, Harden is a better player than what we have. He's a great playmaker and clutch shooter. He's just not quite a #1 option yet. Although, on a good team, he can fulfill that role of creating plays in the 4th quarter; whether he shoots or passes, doesn't matter. If we did trade for Harden, then it would be helpful to thin out our logjam of bigs and I also think we have too many point guards. Foye, Hayward, and Burks are all good ball-handlers and can also initiate the offense. Even if we stayed with our current roster, we don't need both Watson and Tinsley, IMO. Basically, Utah doesn't need any particular position because we don't know what we actually have now. All these new pieces could already be what we need. However, Harden would be an immediate upgrade because he's a known commodity and still has an upside.
Therefore, OKC would probably ask for one of our bigs, or possibly two. They'd also want a SG that's not a huge drop-off but much cheaper so they can afford their team's payroll going forward. They just gave Ibaka a big pay increase. If that was a conscious decision between giving Ibaka a ton of money or Harden, then this should tell us that they have a bigger need for bigs then wing players.
What does this information leave us with? I would think that a veteran like Millsap, who is still young but also gives them interior depth would be their #1 choice, since Favors is off the table and is sort of redundant to Ibaka and Perkins. I also think they'd want a guard in return. Millsap and Burks is actually a bit high, considering Burks potential along with Millsap's all-around game. I would think they'd need to include another piece to match that. Also, if they wanted a veteran point guard to fill Fisher's role, then perhaps Watson would fit their style. Plus, Watson did play for the Sonics with Durant when he was a rookie.
Another thought is, with Watson, they could use Westbrook more as a SG in place Harden? In that scenario, they wouldn't need another SG as much. They could use Westbrook there more along with some of their young players. They did have some nice play from their young players in the summer league play.
Therefore, ideally, the best trade without creating too many problems for either side, would be a sign-and-traded Harden for a sign-and-traded Millsap along with Watson. Cash or second round picks may need to be included depending on the size of the newly signed contracts.
However, if they want a SG in return then it would be Millsap and Burks or our rookie for Harden and pick(s) or Harden and another player. The Jazz may have to take back Collison as part of the deal or possibly another player(s).
Of course, if they could get a third team involved and the Jazz could trade multiple players, including Millsap and Burks and maybe Kanter. It would all depend on the third team and what was offered in addition to Harden.
Ideally, the Jazz need better quality players at certain positions rather than position by committee. Burks is a good player who could be great. I just think Harden fits our style better, being the better passer. Of course, in order to get a player like that we'd have to give up quality in return.
I really like Millsap and I also really like Burks. I just think we'd be a better team with a shooting guard like Harden over keeping Millsap long-term and waiting for Burks potential. Of course, this only works if Favors turns out to be what we think he will become and what he thinks he will become.
What does OKC need? They just got to the Finals. That is their goal for next season and for many after. Anything less will be a failure for a team that close. Therefore, look at who beat them this year. Miami beat them because outside of Ibaka and Perkins, they're a little thin down low. They need a player who is versatile and can stay with James wherever he goes. Or, they need more big men in general. They also need a veteran point guard in case they don't sign Fisher again. I haven't heard if they did or not. They'd also need a Guard to replace Harden if they did trade him.
What does Utah need? We have good players at every position now. However, Harden is a better player than what we have. He's a great playmaker and clutch shooter. He's just not quite a #1 option yet. Although, on a good team, he can fulfill that role of creating plays in the 4th quarter; whether he shoots or passes, doesn't matter. If we did trade for Harden, then it would be helpful to thin out our logjam of bigs and I also think we have too many point guards. Foye, Hayward, and Burks are all good ball-handlers and can also initiate the offense. Even if we stayed with our current roster, we don't need both Watson and Tinsley, IMO. Basically, Utah doesn't need any particular position because we don't know what we actually have now. All these new pieces could already be what we need. However, Harden would be an immediate upgrade because he's a known commodity and still has an upside.
Therefore, OKC would probably ask for one of our bigs, or possibly two. They'd also want a SG that's not a huge drop-off but much cheaper so they can afford their team's payroll going forward. They just gave Ibaka a big pay increase. If that was a conscious decision between giving Ibaka a ton of money or Harden, then this should tell us that they have a bigger need for bigs then wing players.
What does this information leave us with? I would think that a veteran like Millsap, who is still young but also gives them interior depth would be their #1 choice, since Favors is off the table and is sort of redundant to Ibaka and Perkins. I also think they'd want a guard in return. Millsap and Burks is actually a bit high, considering Burks potential along with Millsap's all-around game. I would think they'd need to include another piece to match that. Also, if they wanted a veteran point guard to fill Fisher's role, then perhaps Watson would fit their style. Plus, Watson did play for the Sonics with Durant when he was a rookie.
Another thought is, with Watson, they could use Westbrook more as a SG in place Harden? In that scenario, they wouldn't need another SG as much. They could use Westbrook there more along with some of their young players. They did have some nice play from their young players in the summer league play.
Therefore, ideally, the best trade without creating too many problems for either side, would be a sign-and-traded Harden for a sign-and-traded Millsap along with Watson. Cash or second round picks may need to be included depending on the size of the newly signed contracts.
However, if they want a SG in return then it would be Millsap and Burks or our rookie for Harden and pick(s) or Harden and another player. The Jazz may have to take back Collison as part of the deal or possibly another player(s).
Of course, if they could get a third team involved and the Jazz could trade multiple players, including Millsap and Burks and maybe Kanter. It would all depend on the third team and what was offered in addition to Harden.
Ideally, the Jazz need better quality players at certain positions rather than position by committee. Burks is a good player who could be great. I just think Harden fits our style better, being the better passer. Of course, in order to get a player like that we'd have to give up quality in return.
I really like Millsap and I also really like Burks. I just think we'd be a better team with a shooting guard like Harden over keeping Millsap long-term and waiting for Burks potential. Of course, this only works if Favors turns out to be what we think he will become and what he thinks he will become.
UGLI baby
Well-Known Member
TLAD (too long almost died)
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Harden is a cute #2 or #3. He's not a #1. Nor should he be paid like one.
Unfortunately, I think he's going to demand the max...
Personally, he's too much of a pansie *** flopper for me. Even if he were on the Jazz and got us some calls, I think his flopping would annoy me.
Hope Artest finishes him off for good next year.
All flopping needs to end next year. Seriously, Stern and co need to fix this thing. Lebron or Griffin acting like they were just bulldozed by Shaq when a lil guard touches them is just ridiculous. The Spurs, Dfish, and Harden all need to be suspended and eventually banned if they keep flopping.
this is America and we don't allow pansie *** sports. Go back to Europe where they share Giricek hair diseased towels and the women don't shave and everyone smells like pee and cigarettes if you wanna flop.
Unfortunately, I think he's going to demand the max...
Personally, he's too much of a pansie *** flopper for me. Even if he were on the Jazz and got us some calls, I think his flopping would annoy me.
Hope Artest finishes him off for good next year.
All flopping needs to end next year. Seriously, Stern and co need to fix this thing. Lebron or Griffin acting like they were just bulldozed by Shaq when a lil guard touches them is just ridiculous. The Spurs, Dfish, and Harden all need to be suspended and eventually banned if they keep flopping.
this is America and we don't allow pansie *** sports. Go back to Europe where they share Giricek hair diseased towels and the women don't shave and everyone smells like pee and cigarettes if you wanna flop.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggggg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I really don't like Harden...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGzSNsPafY0
That is BS
I really don't like Harden...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGzSNsPafY0
That is BS
Scorpjazz
Well-Known Member
First two lines are brilliant, then it tails off a bit...
Guitaro
Well-Known Member
I'd say that's a semi-flop. There was contact, but really, Chandler should know better. You should never put your elbows up in someone's face. That alone, is the real reason he deserved the technical. It's actually smart, too, because now Chandler won't put his elbows up again like that.
Guitaro
Well-Known Member
Guitaro
Well-Known Member
Sounds like a few people on this board were victims of the vicious flop in their heyday.
But seriously, flopping is acting. The NBA is a show more than the Euro game. We praise superstars for their showmanship. Flopping is an art. Just make sure you receive contact. lol