What's really wrong with the Jazz and the entire NBA!

[carolinajazz]

I'm sorry, I don't believe you.

And you still never answered, why does having tattoos have anything to do with buying into a team concept?

....not in every case but in the majority, players loaded with tats shout out "LOOK AT ME....I'M GREAT!" On the other hand, players that respect there bodies and dignify them without the ink, seem to me to have a more team concept philosophy and are willing to sacrifice for the good of the team. Found this today about the Spurs and there organization and I think it says alot!
"Popovich said: "In our vernacular we talk about people who've gotten over themselves, [who] can cheer for teammates' success, as well as their own. When you find those kind of people, they're more interested in the group than they are themselves. That's a winning formula in most cases."

"From the first moment I landed and I met the guys, the staff, I definitely saw how professional this organization was," Baynes said. "Every day since I've been here, I start to understand it a little more."

I know the Spurs are not tattoo-less to be sure.....but they ain't loaded with them either! And didn't they just cut Stephen Jackson, thus reducing that look by a factor of 10?

 

[b_line]

....well, the NBA has gone to hell and a handbasket for a number of years now! Trying to put a finger on why, I've come to some conclusions! 1) Brain dead players coming into the league after only 1 year in college. 2) Those players coming into the league more interested in showboating and dunking than being fundamentally sound. 3) NBA coaches unable to coach the "uncoachable"! 4) GTD contracts given to most players resulting in a total lack of effort and commitment to the sport. 5) Complete personal lack of dignity and respect for themselves as they spend more time wanting to stand out by covering themselves with "jailhouse" tats or transforming themselves into "Circus Freaks" at a carnival sideshow!

Are you sure you are not talking about the NBA ten years ago? remember the Jail Blazers, the fiasco with the Pacers? I think the players coming in now are smart, and successful, hard working young men who want to win. I see a team concept much more now than ten years ago.

 

[carolinajazz]

I see a team concept much more now than ten years ago.

....sure your not kin to Stevie Wonder???

 

[b_line]

....sure your not kin to Stevie Wonder???

The 90's had good basketball. There was a time from the beginning of the 2000's, up until about 2007 that basketball was super selfish, and it was evidenced by the olympic players that would not get along with each other, would not play team ball, and were pretty shady overall. I am talking about guys like Iverson, T Mac, Artest, etc. Those guys were not team players. Today, we have some pretty awesome team oriented superstars, Kevin Durant, Chris Paul, guys like that. Sure, there are players like Marshmellow Anthony and Kobe, but I would say the new stars are trending towards being better people and team players.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

The 90's had good basketball. There was a time from the beginning of the 2000's, up until about 2007 that basketball was super selfish, and it was evidenced by the olympic players that would not get along with each other, would not play team ball, and were pretty shady overall. I am talking about guys like Iverson, T Mac, Artest, etc. Those guys were not team players. Today, we have some pretty awesome team oriented superstars, Kevin Durant, Chris Paul, guys like that. Sure, there are players like Marshmellow Anthony and Kobe, but I would say the new stars are trending towards being better people and team players.

Artest has had 1 season where he took over 16 shots per game (and that season was 7 games long for him). He was a hot head, but I wouldn't lump him into the same category as Iverson and Tmac.

 

[carolinajazz]

The 90's had good basketball. There was a time from the beginning of the 2000's, up until about 2007 that basketball was super selfish, and it was evidenced by the olympic players that would not get along with each other, would not play team ball, and were pretty shady overall. I am talking about guys like Iverson, T Mac, Artest, etc. Those guys were not team players. Today, we have some pretty awesome team oriented superstars, Kevin Durant, Chris Paul, guys like that. Sure, there are players like Marshmellow Anthony and Kobe, but I would say the new stars are trending towards being better people and team players.

...you make some good points. However, the fact of the matter is this: NBA basketball is going down the tubes, both in TV ratings, fan support, arena attendance and in every other way! This is also evident in that instead of hyping the game or sport, they have to go to great lengths to supplement the game with non-basketball entertainment both before, during and after the games! Those are the facts and they are indisputable!

 

[kabenac]

This is why the Spurs make the playoffs every year - they have players who are strong on fundamentals and know how to play certain roles. Also, they put on a clinic when it comes to executing a play.

 

[mellow]

...you make some good points. However, the fact of the matter is this: NBA basketball is going down the tubes, both in TV ratings, fan support, arena attendance and in every other way! This is also evident in that instead of hyping the game or sport, they have to go to great lengths to supplement the game with non-basketball entertainment both before, during and after the games! Those are the facts and they are indisputable!

I agree with your premise that the NBA is broken, it looks and feels broken to me. Too many empty arenas, too many irrelevant players, too many irrelevant teams. But in another thread I was corrected sharply by several posters when suggested that TV ratings were down. They pointed to last years Finals that broke the record for the most viewers.

They supposed that the ratings were an indication of the leagues health, I took it as another sign of larger unresolved issues.

 

[One Brow]

The 90's had good basketball.

I hear nostalgia was much better in the 90's.

 

[green]

It's true. He can't even stop himself.

I'm not sure how much worse OKC will be, but I'm very confident they'd be better with Harden as oppose to Westbrook.

I agree. If I was OKC, I would have built around Durant, Harden, and Ibaka. I would have moved Westbrook for pieces. You then basically have the Bulls of the 90's. Durant = Jordan. Harden = Pippen. Ibaka = Rodman. Toss in a big C who can take up space, maybe hit the three, and a good solid PG (Fisher in his prime or Harper for the Bulls) and you are winning title after title. And this is all assuming you get ZERO prospects back from moving Westbrook.

 

[green]

The 90's had good basketball. There was a time from the beginning of the 2000's, up until about 2007 that basketball was super selfish, and it was evidenced by the olympic players that would not get along with each other, would not play team ball, and were pretty shady overall. I am talking about guys like Iverson, T Mac, Artest, etc. Those guys were not team players. Today, we have some pretty awesome team oriented superstars, Kevin Durant, Chris Paul, guys like that. Sure, there are players like Marshmellow Anthony and Kobe, but I would say the new stars are trending towards being better people and team players.

I agree with this big time. Look at the league's best player: LeBron James. The dude is probably a top 3 passer in the NBA.

This is where I think the league really had a chance to EXPLODE in popularity had they gotten the CBA right. If they could have "spread the wealth" better, with a hard cap and non-guaranteed contracts, than the league would have become insanely popular.

 

[unluckyseventeen]

The obvious answer is to adapt to how the players are changing, instead of thinking it's going to be 1980 until the end of time. The teams that adapt to the player mentality and talent pool will do much better than those who do not.

Or you could just sit and complain about it.. either way.

 

[b_line]

...you make some good points. However, the fact of the matter is this: NBA basketball is going down the tubes, both in TV ratings, fan support, arena attendance and in every other way! This is also evident in that instead of hyping the game or sport, they have to go to great lengths to supplement the game with non-basketball entertainment both before, during and after the games! Those are the facts and they are indisputable!

Show us the facts quantitatively. Until you do that, they are assertions and not facts. I assert that basketball is great right now, and there are several teams that are really leading the way in team play. The thunder and spurs lead the way, and I like the way the bulls, warriors and nuggets play as well. They are team oriented and play fundamentally sound ball. I did not like basketball in the start to middle of the last decade. I liked it before that, and I like it now. That is my opinion.

 

[b_line]

Artest has had 1 season where he took over 16 shots per game (and that season was 7 games long for him). He was a hot head, but I wouldn't lump him into the same category as Iverson and Tmac.

I get what you are saying as far as play, but I am talking about personality and demeanor. I hate these guys attitudes. T Mac was not the worst, but I would still rather not have him on my team.

 

[b_line]

I hear nostalgia was much better in the 90's.

What's your point? Do you think basketball in the nineties sucked? I never said it was the golden age, just better than the iverson age.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I get what you are saying as far as play, but I am talking about personality and demeanor. I hate these guys attitudes. T Mac was not the worst, but I would still rather not have him on my team.

I'd take Artest on my team any day as long as I had a coach who could keep his crazy in check.

 

[One Brow]

What's your point? Do you think basketball in the nineties sucked? I never said it was the golden age, just better than the iverson age.

I think that were we back in the '90s, you'd be talking about how great basketball was in the '60s.

 

[green]

I think that were we back in the '90s, you'd be talking about how great basketball was in the '60s.

Man, the three point line really killed basketball. It was such a team game until the 3 pt line created a bunch of chuckers. Those guys just want to see who can shoot it further out and still make it. No team attitude at all...And that shot clock?!? Who in the world would want to limit offensive genius to 24 seconds? Everyone is running around now like their heads have been cut off. No flow, no plays, all intricacy has been stolen from the game. And don't get me started on this so called "slam dunk"...

 

[b_line]

I'd take Artest on my team any day as long as I had a coach who could keep his crazy in check.

I would probably take any of those guys like iverson or artest if I had a coach to keep them in check. But they didn't for the most part. I guess that's the problem. It was a players league a little bit too much for a few years. I think discipline has returned somewhat now though.

 

[carolinajazz]

Show us the facts quantitatively. Until you do that, they are assertions and not facts. I assert that basketball is great right now, and there are several teams that are really leading the way in team play.

...well, I assert that basketball is anything but great right now, virtually unwatchable.....and getting worse! There are only a very few teams that truly play fundamentally sound basketball with emphasis on "team" play. The Spurs are one of them, the Thunder are NOT!