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What's the profile of the prospect that goes undrafted but emerges as a NBA starter?

J

jazzmania

New Member
Talented seniors who have the drive to succeed who don't have elite measurables are the ones which historically can become an NBA starter, ala Wes Matthews. I think you need to evaluate those prospects if the NBA becomes their fulltime job will they succeed.
 
jazzmania said:
Talented seniors who have the drive to succeed who don't have elite measurables are the ones which historically can become an NBA starter, ala Wes Matthews. I think you need to evaluate those prospects if the NBA becomes their fulltime job will they succeed.
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Or players who have the size but are late bloomers and need to develop. Wes Matthews is an extremely rare case. Who else can you cite that was like him? More often MAYBE you find a role player like Joe Ingles. More often than not, 2nd round picks don't even play in the NBA. So finding a quality undrafted player is even more difficult.
 
Stifle Tower said:
Or players who have the size but are late bloomers and need to develop. Wes Matthews is an extremely rare case. Who else can you cite that was like him? More often MAYBE you find a role player like Joe Ingles. More often than not, 2nd round picks don't even play in the NBA. So finding a quality undrafted player is even more difficult.
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Matthews -- I remember way back when I first saw him in summer league, I said that guy is good. And then even after he showed us he had the goods, the Jazz let him walk. Oh, well, water over the dam. Stupid KOC. Yeah, yeah, I know all the arguments. Well, history shows they were wrong. I wonder what the Jazz would've been like, because if they had signed Matthews, no DWill departure, no Jerry resignation (they were both pissed about letting Matthews walk). Who knows. Maybe DWill would not have gotten injured had he stayed with the Jazz.
 
Ummm...DWill was injured when they traded him. And Matthews leaving may have made DWill a little upset but it had little to do with him or Jerry leaving.
 
Stifle Tower said:
Ummm...DWill was injured when they traded him. And Matthews leaving may have made DWill a little upset but it had little to do with him or Jerry leaving.
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This might've been before you were on the board, but I actually talked in person to a long-time friend of Jerry's, Clifford Ray, at an LA Fitness in Orlando that summer. He told me Jerry was very upset that they lowballed Matthews and didn't sign him, having recently discussed this with him on the phone. If you don't know who Ray is, he was the Bulls center on the team that Jerry played with and later was the center on the Warriors' championship team led by Rick Barry, and often has been hired to work as a part-time coach for big men, most recently I believe for the Pistons.

There was a lot of talk in the news that DWill was upset about that, as well. Also, that summer they let Korver, who was another of DWill's buddies, walk. I don't know what Jerry's feelings were about that -- but I think Jerry liked Korver and if you remember, always played him in the 4th quarter, which won a number of games for the Jazz because of Korver's free throw ability.

I think this situation coincided with Greg Miller becoming owner (his refusal to pay for talent) and led to the tensions between Jerry and DWill. So, it was as if the first domino, not signing Matthews, led to the other events. Notice I say lowballed Matthews because Matthews had made it known that he wanted to stay with the Jazz but he was given a very low, preliminary offer. This gave the Blazers that opportunity to steal him from the Jazz.

As far as DWill's injuries -- it seems he had further injuries after he left the Jazz that led to his decline and other issues. I think if the status quo continued with the Jazz and Jerry at the helm, DWill's career would've turned out much differently.
 
The best approach is to not draft anyone. Then hook the remaining undrafted players up to the combination What-if/Crystal Ball machine to get the reading on future attitude, work ethic, stats and injuries, then make a call on a guaranteed gem! Flawless plan.
 
(2006) SF: Chris Copeland - Colorado (Senior)
(2006) PG: C. J. Watson - Tennessee (Senior)
(2007) SG: Gary Neal - Towson/Europe
(2008) C: Timofey Mozgov - International
(2009) SG: Wesley Matthews - Marquette (Senior)
(2010) PG: Jeremy Lin -Harvard (Senior)
(2010) SG: Elijah Millsap - UAB (Senior)
(2010) SG: Alexey Shved - International
(2012) SG: Kent Bazemore - Old Dominion (Senior)
(2013) PG: Matthew Dellavedova - St. Mary's (Senior)
(2013) SF: Robert Covington - Tennessee State (Senior)
(2014) PG: Langston Galloway - St. Joseph's (Senior)
 
Typically, the guys that make it:

A.) are older players who
B.) have an NBA skill (shooting, defense, hustle, athleticism, rebounding, etc.) and
C.) have a great drive and work ethic.

These guys aren't as physically talented as other players, so they have to outwork them in practice to get a job and keep it. Also, there's usually only one (maybe two guys) that go undrafted every year but manage to turn out as good players who slipped through the cracks.

Interestingly enough, there's usually a high amount of successful big men who are 2nd round picks, while Guards tend to find themselves undrafted. Kinda hoping Bryce Cotton is one of those guys. My money is on Tyler Harvey or Pat Connaughton (if they go undrafted.)
 
Eenie,
i don't think Ray was giving you the whole story. Matthews was let go because his salary/tax figure would have been 9m for Utah. That wasn't on Greg; it was on Larry H. for vetoing a couple of AK trades. Wes was a nice player for Utah as a rookie but he wasn't worth 9M back then. And Korver punched his ticket out of town by refusing to take shots. He ADMITTED that he was protecting his record. There was already friction between Deron and Jerry ending in Greg and KOC refusing to approve any disciplinary action.
 
Stifle Tower said:
Eenie,
i don't think Ray was giving you the whole story. Matthews was let go because his salary/tax figure would have been 9m for Utah. That wasn't on Greg; it was on Larry H. for vetoing a couple of AK trades. Wes was a nice player for Utah as a rookie but he wasn't worth 9M back then. And Korver punched his ticket out of town by refusing to take shots. He ADMITTED that he was protecting his record. There was already friction between Deron and Jerry ending in Greg and KOC refusing to approve any disciplinary action.
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Also, Matthew's performance on he first couple years of his Blazer's contract were very pedestrian. Only in the last two years did he live up to the contract. He wouldn't have made a tremendous difference in Utah in keeping Jerry and Dwill on board. He does well as a third or fourth scorer. 9 million was a lot to pay for a guy who tops out as 3rd or 4th scorer in the second year of his career under that particular cap. But, yeah, I liked Matthews and will always hate Portland, because screw them.
 
framer said:
Also, Matthew's performance on he first couple years of his Blazer's contract were very pedestrian. Only in the last two years did he live up to the contract. He wouldn't have made a tremendous difference in Utah in keeping Jerry and Dwill on board. He does well as a third or fourth scorer. 9 million was a lot to pay for a guy who tops out as 3rd or 4th scorer in the second year of his career under that particular cap. But, yeah, I liked Matthews and will always hate Portland, because screw them.
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Yes, Portland weighted the contract so that he got a bigger salary the first year. But if the Jazz made him a good qualifying offer to begin with, the talk was that Matthews would've signed with the Jazz and Portland never would've had the opportunity to steal him away. I also think you underestimate his earlier years with Portland. For instance, 15.9 points and .407 from 3 his first year. In his five years with Portland, he's averaging nearly 40 percent from 3 and his low year scoring was 13.7 pts, his best 16.4. And he has always been a great man-to-man defender.

Ray did say Jerry was not happy about losing Matthews, there's no denying that. And DWill made comments to that effect, as well. While Korver's comment might've rankled fans, I'm not sure it was why they let him walk. I myself thought it was dumb to let him walk (he never was as bad defensively as a lot of posters on here claimed), and again history has shown it was a bad decision. I know I'm speculating to a degree but I really believe that losing Matthews had an effect on the relationship between Jerry and DWill. I think DWill felt the front office let him down by their management of the roster and the weight of the responsibility on him for the team's success affected his play and caused tension between him and Jerry. But this is pure speculation. Maybe Jerry had lost confidence in the front office as well after LHM died.
 
Delly should have been drafted. Not the best athlete, but DAMN that kid works hard. I was really high on him as a 2nd round pick, but wasn't sure if he'd be able to score enough to stick.

Kid is making himself some money with these finals. Even though it's the LeBron Show, I expect some team to throw a ridiculous contract and a starting job at him this summer. Maybe the Cavs get lucky and do a S&T. Get something back for their investment.
 
Another question mark Dellavedova faces at the pro level revolves around his potential defensively. His lack of strength, length and lateral quickness makes it difficult for him to stay in front of opposing point guards, as he doesn't cover ground very well, and has a difficult time getting through screens. He counters this by putting a good effort in, and shows nice anticipation skills on this end of the floor, but his potential at this end of the floor is a bit murky against elite athletes.

From DraftExpress.com https://www.draftexpress.com/#ixzz3cg5CVBES
https://www.draftexpress.com
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Funny how two of the best defenders in this series ,Draymond Green and Delly, were actually known as bad college defenders.
 
Cy said:
Funny how two of the best defenders in this series ,Draymond Green and Delly, were actually known as bad college defenders.
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Yep. Hoping to put Exum into that group someday as well. There were major questions about Dante's defense too. He's already had a decent season defensively and should get better as he gets stronger.
 
Cy said:
Funny how two of the best defenders in this series ,Draymond Green and Delly, were actually known as bad college defenders.
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I guess effort and physicality is the great equalizer when it comes to defense. If you put in crazy effort and play physically, chances are you will do fine. The fact that his matchup is a finesse player like Curry rather than power player also amplifies his good attributes in defense. I wonder how would he do in a series against Westbrook for example?
 
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