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When will Hayward surpass AK47 as the 2nd best Jazz SF of All Time?

Stifle Tower said:
Hard to read Mrs Hayward's mind. Him staying in Indiana for several off seasons had me believing he'd leave. But this year he stayed in Utah. And there's a real family atmosphere with Favs, Ingles and Hayward all having young children. Also has a couple of good friends in Hill and Mack. I think all of that counts a lot, especially if Hill re-signs. Where is he going to go for a better chance? The "elite" teams already have all-star SF's in place. I think Utah with Hayward is better than Bostjon with Hayward.
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Keep in mind the only reason we are in this predicament is DL gambled on Hayward as a RFA and lost.

If I'm Hayward that pisses me off
 
ijazz said:
Keep in mind the only reason we are in this predicament is DL gambled on Hayward as a RFA and lost.

If I'm Hayward that pisses me off
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Why? If anything, Hayward legitimately proved his own market value. The Jazz' economic gamble (that they lost) was rendered a footnote by their willingness to match the offer.
 
ijazz said:
Keep in mind the only reason we are in this predicament is DL gambled on Hayward as a RFA and lost.

If I'm Hayward that pisses me off
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Hayward's pissed that he ended up getting more money? Hayward is a weird dude.
 
Stoked said:
Good thing the Jazz will be in the 2nd round of the playoffs this season and will tweak the roster in the off season to push further. They will sell Hayward and I bet he returns. I say 75/25 he stays.
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I'm 100% certain he stays.
 
All the jazz need to do is cut a deal with subway where they give Hayward a VIP card good at any Utah stor for free sandwiches how could he ever refuse?
 
To me it's a fascinating question because people are very quick to slam AK, ignoring those couple of years when he was killing (and was an all-star).

In some ways, they're actually quite similar-- both high IQ players with good defensive instincts, good passing. But they differ on certain grounds quite starkly:

- Hayward is eons and eons better at shooting
- AK was simply longer, and maybe even bouncier. Hayward is no athletic slouch, and his chasedown blocks are art, but AK's length is what made his passing, his steals, and his blocks possible
- Hayward is strong, AK was injury prone.

AK would have made a great PF in the smallball era if he could have learned to stay healthy & developed a lethal corner 3. Hayward's longevity and consistency will make him at least #2
 
dalamon said:
To me it's a fascinating question because people are very quick to slam AK, ignoring those couple of years when he was killing (and was an all-star).

In some ways, they're actually quite similar-- both high IQ players with good defensive instincts, good passing. But they differ on certain grounds quite starkly:

- Hayward is eons and eons better at shooting
- AK was simply longer, and maybe even bouncier. Hayward is no athletic slouch, and his chasedown blocks are art, but AK's length is what made his passing, his steals, and his blocks possible
- Hayward is strong, AK was injury prone.

AK would have made a great PF in the smallball era if he could have learned to stay healthy & developed a lethal corner 3. Hayward's longevity and consistency will make him at least #2
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I would add that AK was an EXTREMELY better passer. Possibly the 2nd best passer in Jazz history. Also, AK's 5x5 games were something all-league extraordinary. He probably could have had 5 times as many 5x5 games too, except usually when he close to having one doing so would put the Jazz at a 20+ point advantage and he'd get to sit the 4th.

Also, AK was 3x NBA All-Defensive team. Hayward will probably never earn that honor.

So, it depends on how you rank the best SF of All-Time. To my mind, it's not simply a matter of stats, but who do you pick for the head-to-head matchup if you want your team to win the game? For my money it's AK, because he's going to shut down a lot of what Hayward tries to do.
 
Joncolton said:
I would add that AK was an EXTREMELY better passer. Possibly the 2nd best passer in Jazz history. Also, AK's 5x5 games were something all-league extraordinary. He probably could have had 5 times as many 5x5 games too, except usually when he close to having one doing so would put the Jazz at a 20+ point advantage and he'd get to sit the 4th.

Also, AK was 3x NBA All-Defensive team. Hayward will probably never earn that honor.

So, it depends on how you rank the best SF of All-Time. To my mind, it's not simply a matter of stats, but who do you pick for the head-to-head matchup if you want your team to win the game? For my money it's AK, because he's going to shut down a lot of what Hayward tries to do.
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I would take Hayward in a head to head matchup. He is a good defender and much better all around offensive player. Prime AK might slow down Hayward but he will still score and make plays for his team and demand extra attention. AK was a much better weakside/help defender than a 1v1 guy. Hayward could potentially shut down AK on the other end. AK is not strong enough to do much against Hayward in the post and isnt fast enough or have enough handle to consistently drive by him. AK also was never a good enough shooter to space the floor. I loved AK but he was maybe our 3rd or even 4th most important player behind Deron, Boozer and maybe even Memo when our team was actually good. If you put prime Hayward on those teams back then we are a much better team.
 
AK had some flashy passing and made some dope plays. He was really fun to watch.

Hayward is light-years ahead of him at playing basketball.
 
I think AK v Hayward is close, but the one thing I take from this thread is people have forgotten how good AK was.
 
margodydek said:
I think AK v Hayward is close, but the one thing I take from this thread is people have forgotten how good AK was.
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Or others have rose colored glasses and remember the good stuff from him and not that he disappeared all the time and pouted for almost 5 years straight and never got better after getting paid. We also are very critical of our current players (like Hayward) and look for every flaw.
 
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