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Where does Utah fit in the West?

You know what my stance is.

Nope. No clue what you expected from the jazz management last off season.

They had a team put together to compete for a playoff spot (and actually be the favorite to get a playoff spot) all the way until the last week of the season despite having the worst injury situation possible.

If you expected more then your expectations were too high.
 
was Booker our 4th or 5th big?
yes. Or lyles.
Take your pick. Either guy is just as good as most teams 4th big.
the deeper end of wing rotations -- on good teams -- are either more talented or more experienced. Mostly both. Have a (better) look for yourself.

Wrong.
I already went through the 3-6 seeds in the east and west (what I consider good teams... And I was being generous by not including the 7 and 8 seeds) and compared their 4th wing in the rotation to ingles. Guess what? Not much difference between ingles and those teams 4th wings.

The difference was that those teams were usually healthier and had better top end talent.
 
Nope. No clue what you expected from the jazz management last off season.

They had a team put together to compete for a playoff spot (and actually be the favorite to get a playoff spot) all the way until the last week of the season despite having the worst injury situation possible.

If you expected more then your expectations were too high.

Do you toe the company-line this closely at Dannon? Yesus Christo. Yick.

I've had it in my sig for 9-months: I'm as anti-cakk as I can get. The lack of activity last free agency sent me into daily tirades around here.... and you live here.
 
yes. Or lyles.
Take your pick. Either guy is just as good as most teams 4th big.

Wrong.
I already went through the 3-6 seeds in the east and west (what I consider good teams... And I was being generous by not including the 7 and 8 seeds) and compared their 4th wing in the rotation to ingles. Guess what? Not much difference between ingles and those teams 4th wings.

The difference was that those teams were usually healthier and had better top end talent.

you did that deep of a study?? Please provide a link. That'll be the first "study" in your career on JFC. I can't wait.
 
you did that deep of a study?? Please provide a link. That'll be the first "study" in your career on JFC. I can't wait.



I wish i knew where to find it. Since i dont i will do a real quick list of 4th wings (like ingles) and 4th bigs (like booker) of those teams.

Guys to compare to ingles: (to be fair to the study im going off when a team is totally healthy) Gerald green (a decent improvement), tim hardaway jr (similar experience and help with winning games to ingles imo), james young (ingles might be the better and more experienced player), micheal kidd gilchrist (about the same as ingles? Should be better but really has not been), kyle singler (about the same as ingles), jamal crawford (the best of the bunch probably. The clipps are pretty deep at the wing), gerald henderson (a small upgrade), rodney stuckey (pretty decent upgrade), Stanley johnson (pretty good upgrade with less experience than ingles), lance stephenson (they have vince carter, tony allen, matt barnes and lance... pretty damn deep), corey brewer (a little bit of an upgrade.
Dallas is a hard one to say. They have d-will and devin harris listed as shooting guards which makes the wing depth look good (4th wing would be devin harris in that case) i think they are pointguards (4th wing would be justin anderson or jeremy evans who they have listed as a sf... ingles is better than both imo)
The only really significant upgrade to ingles of all those playoff rosters is jamaal crawford who shot 40% from the field and 34% from the field. (ingles was 43% and 39%) Stanley johnson (a rookie), lance stephenson, and rodney stuckey might be a decent upgrade. But most of those guys suck or never play or both.

As for 4th bigs (booker or lyles) we have: amare stoudamire (pretty good upgrade), kris humphries (i will take our guy), jonas jerebko (i like our guys better but can see jerebko being better), tyler hansboro (i like our guys better), nick collison (small upgrade to our guys), cole aldrich (with the exception of the one game against us, i like our guys better lol), ed davis (upgrade to book, but i would rather have lyles), sala mejri (i like our guys better), jordan hill (i like our guys better), aaron baynes (close but i take our guys), birdman (i would rather have book or lyles), terrence jones (clear upgrade.)

After having it laid out like that its clear that there is room for upgrades. However i believe that 90% of those guys dont tip the scales basically at all to the point of making the jazz much better than lyles, booker, and ingles do.
hardaway, jr
james young
kidd gilchrist
kyle singler
gerald henderson
justin anderson
corey brewer
chris humphries
Tyler hansboro
cole aldrich
jordan hill
aaron baynes
birdman
..... Not a lot of guys moving the needle there and guys like stanley johnson were draft picks and not the type of guys you can acquire. I also didn't take into account for chemistry issues, locker room issues (lance stephenson), salaries in comparison to joe ingles, etc.

Still I definately see some upgrades there so you have a good point. terrence jones, amare stoudamire, jamaal crawford, stanley johnson, lance stephenson, gerald green and a few more are upgrades to our guys.

Im not going to look up minutes played by all those players but i would bet that booker and ingles had to play more than most of these guys due to our injuries. Ideally none of these guys on any of these teams should see much court time.
 
You are all over the place with this post. I don't even know where to start.

Hayward is not a star.

Love is a star.

It's that simple. If you want any hope of doing anything, you need a star.

Love can average 25 pts a game. Not many people can do that. No one on the Jazz can do that. Love is a PF that is an elite level rebounder and can stretch the floor with his three point shot.

We HOPE Lyles can do that, and reality is, Lyles will probably never be as good as Love.

Those of you knocking Love...just don't. It doesn't speak well of you.

Sorry, bully-man. Telling people to not express their opinion on a forum is a curious habit. You may want to get some help with that.

Let me ask you a question: would LeBron have carried the Wolves to the playoffs in on of six seasons? Do you know that Love has averaged 25 ppg only twice in 8 years, his last being the 2013 season? You know his rebounding is down from peak of 15+ to below 10? You need to stop watching old highlight reels and get grounded in the NBA of 2016. Putting Love in the same category as LeBron, Durant, Curry is just silly. He's not even in the same category as Draymond and Millsap.

Facts are stubborn.

Kevin Love is probably a top 30 player. Gordon is probably a top 40 player. Are there any stars outside the top 15?
 
Is a healthy Chris Bosh a star?

I dont think so and I think his career is what Loves is following. The best player of a team that couldnt do much (although Bosh took his team further) kind of like Hayward. Once paired with a real super star they could win. Now if you had a team full at every position of this level of players maybe you could win if things worked out the right way, like the 2004 Pistons.
 
Kevin Love is like Carmelo. Really good offense and no defense of which to speak. For different reasons but it's still true. And neither win.
 
Is a healthy Chris Bosh a star?

I dont think so and I think his career is what Loves is following. The best player of a team that couldnt do much (although Bosh took his team further) kind of like Hayward. Once paired with a real super star they could win. Now if you had a team full at every position of this level of players maybe you could win if things worked out the right way, like the 2004 Pistons.
I agree with this. Imo bosh is close to star level but not quite. About the same level as hayward imo.

Love is below them both imo. Maybe I'm too hard on love but he doesn't seem very good anymore
 
So much rides on exum being a superstar talent.

You Sir are correct i think. If Exum is the slashing drive to the basket at will player who can play like that SL game in real NBA games as well as a defensive gun we are in the hunt to compete. If he's just ok offensively we are a good playoff team. If he's a bit of a wuss who doesn't take off then we are royally screwed.
 
I think Rodney Hood can be a 23+ ppg scorer. Efficiently. And I think he can do that within read-option style sets that get others involved. And, I think Exum will be able to contribute to good offense.

^When you pair this with elite defense, then the future could still be bright.

do you think Hood will naturally become more consistent with experience or will expand his game to get to that level ?
 
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