No, I'm saying if I'm picking from a draft and I have no players, I'd rather take Green.
Give me a bedrock of defense, passing, and energy over a volume shooter who doesn't add anything else.
White Chocolate Just Compared Carmello Anthony to Stockton and Malone
- Thread starter Saint Cy of JFC
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No, I'm saying if I'm picking from a draft and I have no players, I'd rather take Green.
Give me a bedrock of defense, passing, and energy over a volume shooter who doesn't add anything else.
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Miggs
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Not sure I agree actually.
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bowing out before this becomes a time-warp, got a final in 2 days.
Honestly agree with Cy as far as Melo vs Dray but you got really mad fast over something small lol, was there animosity between you two prior to this argument?
Most of it was fake outrage. Like, I wasn't all caps mad like I was typing, but it seemed more fun that way.
Melo is the more skilled player but I do agree that Green translates to wins which makes him more valuable imo.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Voice of reason, although personally, I wouldn't build any team around Melo.
An interesting stat: Karl Malone averaged 25.0 pts/per for his career. Carmelo Anthony is currently at 25.2 pts/per. So remarkably close. Of course, Karl was at that level for many, many more years. Melo would need to score at his current level (and stay healthy) for 8 more seasons to catch Karl in terms of total points.
Hotdog
Well-Known Member
Ummm no.
How do you figure?
When Melo left the Nuggets they were still good. So how can you say Melo made them so much better? This year the Knicks were terrible with Melo.
So you can't really say that adding Melo to a team elevates them any more than Draymond would. In fact, I'd argue Draymond would elevate his team more because he does what so few NBA players do. Lots of players can shoot. You don't need Melo for that. What's even the point? It's not like Melo is shooting some crazy good percentages. At least with Draymond, it would elevate ball movement and defense, and his attitude is contagious too. He adds a toughness to a team. Not a whiney it's all me attitude that players hate to play with.
This is why Melo will spend the rest of his career sucking, until he is old and goes and tries to go ring chasing with some real stars. While Draymond had a real role in a team winning the championship.
I disagree with you whole heartedly.
The proof is in the pudding.
It's not like Carmelo left in free agency and they were still good. They got two of their best players in the deal with Melo (Gallinari, Chandler).
Hotdog
Well-Known Member
Ya, they swapped him out with some average players and were better off or were at least as good. So what does that say? It says that he doesn't make a big difference at all. You might as well play other players and have them split up his shots, and let them shoot the same percentages or better, while playing better defense, and moving the ball better.
I don't get why this is so hard for people to figure out. Like with Al Jefferson. The guy should have been gone before he even got here, but yet it took a few years to realize he didn't make us any good.
Basketball is so much more than just shooting the ball. The only way I employ a guy who only wants to shoot is if he shoots some ridiculous percentage that I can't duplicate with average players. Otherwise, he better do something else, and do it good. Like play defense, or pass the ball, or rebound. Or really, all of those things.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
So can you swap out Green with 2 other very good players and have the GS Warriors be almost as good? I think you probably can. I do agree with Hack that team chemistry is a very important aspect. Also, style of play. Do you run a motion offense or rely on a superstar for a lot of iso's? Jazz rely on a lot of Burke iso's so Melo would be a great fit here (just kidding!).
Carmelo took a team to the conference finals in the West. The dude can play. He's not a scrub. If you swap Carmelo and Green on those Nuggets teams I'm not sure they make the playoffs.
There's a big difference between being the star of a team and being a role player. Draymond Green, Kenny Smith, Robert Horry are some of the best role players ever, but they were never stars of their franchises. Payton didn't become a role player until his Heat and Laker days.
Hotdog
Well-Known Member
No you cant. Because he does what most players can't do. You can find a lot of players who shoot 44% or close to it.
Think about it. You are pretty much guaranteed so many possessions and opportunities to shoot the ball. With good ball movement and screens you can get open looks. With decent players you can get just as many buckets with or without Melo. So having a guy like Green does something for you that not everyone can do. That's stop the other players and force them to shoot lower percentages. That's why Rudy made such a huge impact on our team.
Having an elite scorer is nice if he plays the other parts of them game. If he doesn't then it's a waste. Having a great defender is never a waste. And Draymond is a pretty damn good offensive player too. That's all getting lost in this argument.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
You're arguing against me when I was trying to defend your point. Denver got Gallinari and Chandler and were still just about as good record-wise. That doesn't mean Melo was a scrub. It means they got weaker at his position, but made up for it at another by bringing in TWO quality players. And I'd argue the same would be true with GS trading Green...if they got two players of similar talent as Gallinari and Chandler in return.
Look at the Jazz. Would Utah be a better team if we could trade Hayward for a decent SF and a decent PG? At least in the short-term, yes. Losing Hayward would be a hit, but Jazz would be vastly improved at the PG position (based on last season's production from Exum/Burke).
And before I get negged from the usual crowd that hate me, NO, I am NOT advocating trading Hayward or benching Exum. Our hope for contending largely rests on Exum becoming a top-10 PG (along with Gobert making some major leaps forward).
Honestly, what separates Ron Artest and Draymond Green?