Who would you rather keep, Lauri Markkanen or John Collins? (Please read scenario)

[SoberasHotRod]

I know it’s slow around here during the playoffs, and we need new content to keep us going til the draft…

But this isn’t it.

Eh, I think it's an interesting thought exercise. People might prefer to trade Lauri for a lot of reasons. He will make us too good next year, he will bring back more/better draft picks, his contract is higher risk and prevents us from doing more things longer term, or maybe even they just want him to go to a winning team next year.

I'm honestly surprised at the poll results based on the conversation here in this thread and what has been discussed on Jazzfanz over the past few months.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

The Lauri hate is ridiculous. We WANTED him to have an off season. We WANTED him not to carry the team.

Can you guys not imagine a scenario where we put him in bad spots intentionally? Can you not see that the play around him was piss poor for the first half of the season where he played most of his minutes?

I don't see much Lauri hate. I think there are Lauri concerns, which are valid. He is making 30% of our cap, but didn't play like a 30% of the cap player last year. Personally I tend to agree that he is fine and will be fine when we want to win, but it's fair for people to have concerns.

FWIW, if you think this thread is about Lauri hate, you are wrong.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Somewhat related, but could someone put together our options for a potential John Collins extension this summer? I don't think I'm necessarily interested in extending Collins, but am just curious what we could offer him.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

My commanding thought on this is that I think Lauri is a special player and someone who could be a difference maker in a playoff series. He might not be the best player, or even a top 30 guy, but his shooting at his size is just a weapon.

Collins is good and seemingly getting better, but hes ceiling isn't being the level of difference maker that Lauri is.

I just don't think you let go of that kind of player if you are trying to build a team.

 

[LogGrad98]

We are talking floor raiser vs ceiling raiser. Ceteris paribus, assuming we get enough out of this off-season to solve getting into the playoffs in the first place, then you are better off with the ceiling raiser in those situations that might elevate you to a playoff series win. But if the goal is just getting to the playoffs and that is in question, you should go with the floor raiser. I'm exercising some hope we buck the trend and get a top pick and that for the next 3-4 years we can get enough in young hungry guys to off-set the salary hit and say you keep Lauri for those times he will make a big difference in the playoffs, provided he's healthy during the playoffs.

And if the end-goal for the franchise is just getting back to the playoffs, then they can just **** right the hell off.

 

[HermanG]

One argument here (which I have also said) is that if we get Flagg we must keep Lauri. I do still stand by that but its also worthwhile noting that if we get him we have a big frontcourt roster crunch looming. Same applies to Bailey, if he is the BPA we end up with. We may also face some pressure to upgrade our backcourt with either one of those two, so that we give them proper tools to have a successful rookie campaign (on a personal level, regardless of team win/loss record).

On the other hand if we end up with Harper, VJ, Tre or Kas... then it would probably be a great start to their career to be able to play with the trio of Kessler, Lauri and Collins right out of the gate.

When we also account for the probable trade value... I say we should keep Lauri in every scenario EXCEPT if we land Bailey. At that point I'm kinda more on board with the idea of trading him.

 

[Thee Jazz Fan]

I’ve gone back and fourth on this. Part of me wants to trade Lauri simply because of his contract and age, yes he’s only 27 but we have a long road to championship status and that’s all I care about. Trading him ensures we get another shot at an elite level player next year to help build a championship contender team over the next seven or eight years. And frankly I’d like to get rid of Collins regardless of what happens with Lauri.

If we keep Lauri, can we still get a top 3-5 pick where there is some elite level prospects? Does us keeping Lauri mean we get between 6-8 where we just miss out. Also having that 50 million off the books helps us get better defense and role players that fit championship culture. At this point I only care about championships and not just being in that convo. If that means trading all the vets then that’s what I’m doing even if that means we suck the next 5 years.

 

[Thee Jazz Fan]

The Lauri hate is ridiculous. We WANTED him to have an off season. We WANTED him not to carry the team.

Can you guys not imagine a scenario where we put him in bad spots intentionally? Can you not see that the play around him was piss poor for the first half of the season where he played most of his minutes?

What’s ridiculous is you think there is Lauri hate other than the professional trolls. Sometimes you take heart out of it and make the business decision. I’m not sure we can build a legitimate championship team with Lauri here. I think we can trade him get more picks, and not only add another elite prospect to grow with hopefully a top 3 prospect in this years draft but build around them with championship cultural role players for a complete team, and I think that means Lauri Collins and Sexton are gone. If I can find the right situation I’m doing that with zero hesitation.

 

[HeatCheck]

Depends on the return tbh. Obviously Lauri is better in a vacuum but if they can land a premium FRP + prospect they could consider dealing him I would assume. Locke certainly seems to believe they will be "tanking" again next season so it doesn't really make sense to worry too much about roster construction at this point unless it seriously impacts available minutes for their draft pick.

 

[jazznik]

Another thing to consider is that Collins as a player has very few weak areas. He can score inside, he can shoot from the outside, he is OK on defense, can do some passing and dribbling, can play physically. John also has playoff experience, very coachable and sticks well to his role. John is easily pluggable in all kind of schemes and lineups, while not having any obvious flaws that can be exploited in the playoffs.

Lauri has an undeniably higher ceiling and more position-flexible but there are more questions about him. Can he play physically in playoffs, how well can he coexist with, say, younger stars who would try to take away his leadership role on the team, will he return to his All Star form, will he get tired of the extended tank? Also, Markkanen will turn 28 in a month - I would be way more comfortable in keeping him marinating on the max if he were 25.

 

[fishonjazz]

I cant decide. I think Lauri is the better player but his contract tho.
I guess I would probably say trade Lauri and keep collins if he is going to get something in the 20-25 million per year on his next deal.

 

[jazznik]

Like, realistically, what is the timeline with Lauri? We will most likely tank next year. Will we make the playoffs the year after that? The West is tough and the Jazz can easily fall short even with good young players. (see the Spurs with Wemby). If we make the payoffs for the first time in the 27/28 season then Lauri will be getting his first playoff learning experience at the age of 31, while spending all of his career on the bad teams. How long would it take for him to take his lumps and become a productive star player on a contender then? By the time he is 33 or 34? I think there is quite a bit of risk in it.