Why does Karl get all the blame?

[JimLes]

Karl did have his moments in the clutch, so I think Bob Costas said it best when he said something to the effect of Sometimes Karl came through, sometimes he didn't - but nobody came through as often or as consistently as Michael Jordan."

IMO - the Jazz played better basketball than the Bulls in '97 even though Chicago was the better team, and poorer basketball than Chicago in '98 even though I thought Utah had the better team. Heck, they lost Games 1, 5, & 6 even though they led for 129/144 total minutes. Chicago just finished games better.

The reality is that in tight situations, teams with star perimeter players simply do better. This is why the Jazz lost both those finals. Towards the end of a close game, any team worth their mettle will crowd the paint and force you to go outside, and the Jazz simply had no one outside who could create their own shot. It really helps when your star player is a shooting guard or a small forward who can create their own shot.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

It's always going to be hard to close a game out when you are going against the best closer in NBA history.

 

[vj_74]

The reality is that in tight situations, teams with star perimeter players simply do better. This is why the Jazz lost both those finals. Towards the end of a close game, any team worth their mettle will crowd the paint and force you to go outside, and the Jazz simply had no one outside who could create their own shot. It really helps when your star player is a shooting guard or a small forward who can create their own shot.

Yeah a point that a lot of people forget to remember. Shaq was the best player in the 2000-2002 Lakers team, but it was Kobe who closed games out whenever needed, just like MJ/Pipen in Bulls.

People point out the steal by MJ in game 6, but forget that the Jazz still had a chance to win the game . Who took the shot and missed? Yep, another perimeter player Stockton. We remember THE shot but we forget the misses.

To all Malone haters I always point out this fact : Jazz did not have a single player who could average 15 ppg in the 98 year. After Malone who would average 24 or 25 ppg or so, there was a HUGE dropoff to Hornacek(14 ppg or less in regular season and averaged just 11 ppg in 98 finals) who was already dragging his legs out there. Stockton anyways was a reluctant scorer. He was'nt quite the Pippen to Malone's Jordan, when it came to scoring. People forget the kind of offensive burden Malone shouldered. And then being an inside player having to deal with illegal zones and all that. Phil Jackson knew that all he had to do was frustrate Malone and he would have an instant edge over the Jazz.

(Also personnel-wise we didnt improve a lick between 97 and 98. Came back with the exact same team, atleast the top 8. Except the core was a year older. That botched Seikaly trade only aggravated matters for Sloan and the staff. Larry Miller was in full milk-the-mailman mode those days)

 

[vslice02]

personnel-wise we didnt improve a lick between 97 and 98. Came back with the exact same team, atleast the top 8. Except the core was a year older. That botched Seikaly trade only aggravated matters for Sloan and the staff. Larry Miller was in full milk-the-mailman mode those days

Larry Miller and Scott Layden just saw their team go toe-to-toe with a 69-win Chicago team where they consistently outplayed Chicago but couldn't finish in the final 5 minutes. They knew Karl only had a few seasons left playing at a superstar level and they knew they were close to a championship so they wanted to take one final crack at it. All they did during the summer of '97 was resign Bryon Russell, Jeff Hornacek, Howard Eisley, Shandon Anderson and Antoine Carr (also gave Ostertag his big contract but that was an extension - he was signed for 97-98 regardless) to make one final championship push.
You can definitely blame them in previous or subsequent seasons - but IMO they clearly did their best to chase a championship in 1998.

The only "botched" part of the Seikaly trade was when Seikaly himself failed to report to Utah within the 48-hour deadline - either because he didn't want to live in SLC or because he wanted the Jazz to pick up a 2-year option on his contract. If anything, it was fortuitous for Utah that he didn't report because after the trade was recalled Seikaly was traded to a different team and immediately diagnosed with a stress fracture in his foot. Ultimately, Seikaly would never make a meaningful contribution in the NBA again. Instead Utah atleast held onto 2 players who were healthy enough to make modest contributions in the playoffs.

 

[zbone]

It's still painful even read about it again.

 

[candrew]

Larry Miller and Scott Layden just saw their team go toe-to-toe with a 69-win Chicago team where they consistently outplayed Chicago but couldn't finish in the final 5 minutes. They knew Karl only had a few seasons left playing at a superstar level and they knew they were close to a championship so they wanted to take one final crack at it. All they did during the summer of '97 was resign Bryon Russell, Jeff Hornacek, Howard Eisley, Shandon Anderson and Antoine Carr (also gave Ostertag his big contract but that was an extension - he was signed for 97-98 regardless) to make one final championship push.
You can definitely blame them in previous or subsequent seasons - but IMO they clearly did their best to chase a championship in 1998.

The only "botched" part of the Seikaly trade was when Seikaly himself failed to report to Utah within the 48-hour deadline - either because he didn't want to live in SLC or because he wanted the Jazz to pick up a 2-year option on his contract. If anything, it was fortuitous for Utah that he didn't report because after the trade was recalled Seikaly was traded to a different team and immediately diagnosed with a stress fracture in his foot. Ultimately, Seikaly would never make a meaningful contribution in the NBA again. Instead Utah atleast held onto 2 players who were healthy enough to make modest contributions in the playoffs.

Agreed - Seikaly was notorious for milking injuries. In his autobiography, Jayson Williams said when Seikaly was on The Nets, he would beg to get out of games after 4 minutes because he was afraid of aggravating one of his half dozen re-occuring injuries. That **** never would have flied under Jerry Sloan.

He never would have been a difference maker and he probably would have spent the playoffs on IR while costing Utah two healthy players.

 

[vj_74]

Larry Miller and Scott Layden just saw their team go toe-to-toe with a 69-win Chicago team where they consistently outplayed Chicago but couldn't finish in the final 5 minutes. They knew Karl only had a few seasons left playing at a superstar level and they knew they were close to a championship so they wanted to take one final crack at it. All they did during the summer of '97 was resign Bryon Russell, Jeff Hornacek, Howard Eisley, Shandon Anderson and Antoine Carr (also gave Ostertag his big contract but that was an extension - he was signed for 97-98 regardless) to make one final championship push.
You can definitely blame them in previous or subsequent seasons - but IMO they clearly did their best to chase a championship in 1998.

The only "botched" part of the Seikaly trade was when Seikaly himself failed to report to Utah within the 48-hour deadline - either because he didn't want to live in SLC or because he wanted the Jazz to pick up a 2-year option on his contract. If anything, it was fortuitous for Utah that he didn't report because after the trade was recalled Seikaly was traded to a different team and immediately diagnosed with a stress fracture in his foot. Ultimately, Seikaly would never make a meaningful contribution in the NBA again. Instead Utah atleast held onto 2 players who were healthy enough to make modest contributions in the playoffs.

If Seikaly was that bad then why they did they try to trade for him in the first place? The Jazz, more than any other team, are known to do background checks.
Either way it was a big time goof up and then the coaching staff was put in an embarassing position to welcome back the players who were supposedly already traded away and build back chemistry again. Is that your way of improving a team?

I dont care how close the Jazz were in 97, when you go and get your butts kicked you just dont come back with the exact same team, especially when your main players are all pushing 35. If KM/John/Horny were all in their late 20s I'd agree. But clearly they needed better help. They only got ayear older in 1998.
And with Stockton missing games because of his surgery in 97-98 season, Malone had to carry even bigger of a load early in the season.. People forget all that. Even MJ was quoted as saying after the 98 finals that he didnt think Horny and Stock were 100%.
Also the years following the Finals years, 99-01. KOC saddled Malone with Chilcutt, Fuller, Gilliam and the likes as his backups. Complete garbage. Like I said, the Jazz were in full milk-the-mailman mode.

 

[zbone]

Where did this guy take Jazz-Bulls finals video in HD?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WR86xLSITc&feature=player_embedded

 

[vslice02]

If Seikaly was that bad then why they did they try to trade for him in the first place?

If healthy - Seikaly would've provided Utah with the scoring punch they had always been looking for at the pivot. The Jazz simply wanted him to report to SLC so they could examine the extent of his foot injury - but he didn't want to do that without Utah making gaurantees about his contract situation.

and build back chemistry again. Is that your way of improving a team?

It’s not like Scott Layden saw the scouting report that said “Seikaly is a right-handed center who will likely not want to play in SLC w/out contract assurances” and went ahead with the trade anyway. FWIW the Jazz went 28-5 after the trade – so it’s not like the trade messed up their chemistry. Frank Layden sat down with both players afterward and if anything it brought the team closer together.

I dont care how close the Jazz were in 97, when you go and get your butts kicked you just dont come back with the exact same team, especially when your main players are all pushing 35.

Utah had just given Chicago their toughest championship series ever. If they had a roster shakeup and failed to reach the finals – the whiners would be saying “The Bulls were a weaker team in ’98, we should’ve just kept the same team.” Heck, until the 4th quarter of Game 2 of the ’98 Finals - a large portion of the basketball world felt the Jazz were the favorites over Chicago.

And with Stockton missing games because of his surgery in 97-98 season, Malone had to carry even bigger of a load early in the season.. People forget all that. Even MJ was quoted as saying after the 98 finals that he didnt think Horny and Stock were 100%.

The Bulls went through the same thing Utah did – only worse. Scottie Pippen missed twice as many games as Stockton did and not only did Chicago have a weaker bench than the Jazz, but Jordan had to play the most minutes he had in any season since 1990. Bulls management further depleted their bench by trading away Jason Caffey - their only serviceable big off the bench for nothing in return, and Pippen played Game 6 of the finals with a severely limiting back injury.

Also the years following the Finals years, 99-01. KOC saddled Malone with Chilcutt, Fuller, Gilliam and the likes as his backups. Complete garbage. Like I said, the Jazz were in full milk-the-mailman mode.

Yes, the Fuller trade (only for a 2nd-rnd pick but Fuller was still terrible) and Chilcutt signing sucked, they signed Gilliam after he was waived at midseason when he was the best FA available so that was the best option at the time. However, when you consider the fact that Kevin O’Connor was working for the 76ers during all those moves, I have a hard time blaming him for those transactions.

 

[fargon_sneaky_bastage]

Where did this guy take Jazz-Bulls finals video in HD?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WR86xLSITc&feature=player_embedded

That's a good question because because those videos looked incredible.

 

[prodigy]

Where did this guy take Jazz-Bulls finals video in HD?

probably from the ultimate jordan blu-ray

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

I laugh when they say Karl choked in the end of Game 6. He choked because he looked to his left for Horny to cut back towards him? Karl did not choke in Game 6. Michael just made a great play. I won't argue that Malone choked at the line in Game 1 of the '97 series, but to say he choked in Game 6 of '98 is just wrong.

Looking for him or not, it's about court awareness and protecting the basketball and Karl was deficient at both in that instance. No excuse.