Why the Hell Isn't Rudy in the Starting Lineup?

[Darkwing Duck]

Pull your head put your ***. That team was atrocious at defense.

You apparently do not watch games and just look at stats. It's sad. You have no ability to evaluate a team or a player.

So just to be sure, I want to make sure your argument is essentially what you think you saw over what actually happened, is that correct?

 

[Hotdog]

So just to be sure, I want to make sure your argument is essentially what you think you saw over what actually happened, is that correct?

I'm saying that statistics don't tell the whole story. In fact, they can be misleading. There numerous examples, but I'll just give a couple

If your team makes more shots then fast break opportunities decrease. This can make your defense look better than it is. It's true though, good offense is a good defensive mechanism. But it doesn't define how well you can actually play defense.

Slowing the game down has an effect on defensive statistics.


Then there is the fact that some teams are harder to guard than others. Posting an average doesn't explain how well you do against better teams. Which is what really matters anyways. Also, regular season statistics aren't the same as playoffs.


To answer your question though, yes, my eyes are a better judgment of defensive abilities than some obscure statistic.
I know what I saw. Boozer and Okur couldn't play a lick of defense when it came down to it.


I can't believe there are people who actually believe they played good defense. It was literally one of the worst defenses in the post ever. Neither one put any effort onto it.


How about you two statistic nerds post some defensive stats on how well they did against teams like the Spurs and Lakers?

 

[Darkwing Duck]

I'm saying that statistics don't tell the whole story. In fact, they can be misleading. There numerous examples, but I'll just give a couple

If your team makes more shots then fast break opportunities decrease. This can make your defense look better than it is. It's true though, good offense is a good defensive mechanism. But it doesn't define how well you can actually play defense.

That's why there are several different stats to look at. Points per shot, for instance.

Slowing the game down has an effect on defensive statistics.

That's why defensive ratings, like the one GVC mentioned, are based on per possession, not per game.

Then there is the fact that some teams are harder to guard than others. Posting an average doesn't explain how well you do against better teams. Which is what really matters anyways. Also, regular season statistics aren't the same as playoffs.

Not sure what the point is. Houston's offense was much worse against the Jazz in the playoffs than the regular season. LA's was better.

To answer your question though, yes, my eyes are a better judgment of defensive abilities than some obscure statistic.
I know what I saw. Boozer and Okur couldn't play a lick of defense when it came down to it.

So an obscure stat is ACTUAL points scored divided by 100 possessions? This isn't a prediction metric, or an estimate. A FACTUAL stat. You arguing against two plus two equaling four. You can argue HOW that stat came to be, which you allude to earlier. You want to argue against Boozer and Okur? Rather than use "I saw what I saw," use something to actually back it up, like opponents' offensive rating on and off court. Problem with that, though, is that while those two didn't really change in the 08-09 season regular season to playoffs (Okur was injured, anyway). The rest of the team did.

I can't believe there are people who actually believe they played good defense. It was literally one of the worst defenses in the post ever. Neither one put any effort onto it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx4aJH7V9SU

Never.

All you remember is the poor attempts at swiping at the ball stupidity Boozer would often do. What you seem to forget is all the other stuff that goes into defense. During those seasons, Boozer and Okur were certainly adequate to average defenders, not terrible.

How about you two statistic nerd post some defensive stats on how well they did against teams like the Spurs and Lakers?

Their offensive numbers dropped more drastically than the defensive numbers rose. Dropped 5-7 points offensively, while defensive rating rose (negatively, since you want a lower number) 2 to 3 points.

 

[Hotdog]

That's why there are several different stats to look at. Points per shot, for instance.



That's why defensive ratings, like the one GVC mentioned, are based on per possession, not per game.




Not sure what the point is. Houston's offense was much worse against the Jazz in the playoffs than the regular season. LA's was better.




So an obscure stat is ACTUAL points scored divided by 100 possessions? This isn't a prediction metric, or an estimate. A FACTUAL stat. You arguing against two plus two equaling four. You can argue HOW that stat came to be, which you allude to earlier. You want to argue against Boozer and Okur? Rather than use "I saw what I saw," use something to actually back it up, like opponents' offensive rating on and off court. Problem with that, though, is that while those two didn't really change in the 08-09 season regular season to playoffs (Okur was injured, anyway). The rest of the team did.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx4aJH7V9SU

Never.

All you remember is the poor attempts at swiping at the ball stupidity Boozer would often do. What you seem to forget is all the other stuff that goes into defense. During those seasons, Boozer and Okur were certainly adequate to average defenders, not terrible.



Their offensive numbers dropped more drastically than the defensive numbers rose. Dropped 5-7 points offensively, while defensive rating rose (negatively, since you want a lower number) 2 to 3 points.

You can try to twist and bend the truth all you want.

I just got one question for you though....

Did we win?


Did...........we...........win.....?


Oh........, you see, that's the most important statistic that matters. Isn't it?

We didn't even come close did we? The Western Conference Finals was a fluke appearance. Everyone knows that. Had the Maverik not got upset by the Warriors we never even would have made the final four. Dallas would have crushed us. They were really good that year.


Everyone knows our offense was food on that team. So why didn't we win with such a great offense? I think if you pull your head out your *** then you will find the answer.



And posting one block by Okur is hilarious.... good job.

 

[Coach Ellis]

Rudy is starting. Favors is out for personal reasons. Kinda hoping being paired with Gobert in the starting lineup allows Kanter to go off for 35 points and 10+ rebounds in this game. That way tomorrow, Quin Snyder can announce that Favors personal reasons are expected to keep him out until after the trade deadline.

 

[freakazoid]

Damn, a team with MJ, Kobe, Lebron, the Mailman, and Hakeem would be good? Why didn't the Jazz get that one together?

None of those guys were perfect though. It's about time we as fans let the FO know that we will no longer accept anything less than perfection. Personally, I'm gonna continue to bitch about anything and everything until we have Jesus Christ at all 5 positions.

 

[Hekate]

None of those guys were perfect though. It's about time we as fans let the FO know that we will no longer accept anything less than perfection. Personally, I'm gonna continue to bitch about anything and everything until we have Jesus Christ at all 5 positions.

Meh.

 

[freakazoid]

Meh.

Allah?

 

[Hekate]

Allah?

Nope.

 

[8]

You can try to twist and bend the truth all you want.

I just got one question for you though....

Did we win?


Did...........we...........win.....?


Oh........, you see, that's the most important statistic that matters. Isn't it?

We didn't even come close did we? The Western Conference Finals was a fluke appearance. Everyone knows that. Had the Maverik not got upset by the Warriors we never even would have made the final four. Dallas would have crushed us. They were really good that year.


Everyone knows our offense was food on that team. So why didn't we win with such a great offense? I think if you pull your head out your *** then you will find the answer.



And posting one block by Okur is hilarious.... good job.

...Have we won....? Have........we.......won......since....?

The Jazz won lots of games. How can you say the western conference finals appearance was a fluke? They made it to that round, we all watched them play. The Jazz didn't win the finals, no. It's pretty ****ing hard to do. Only one team does it out of thirty each season. The two greatest Jazz teams ever couldn't even get it done. The Jazz lost because the team wasn't good enough. There are lots of ways to be better. Defense is certainly one thing that a team can improve.

Earlier, you discussed frustration with the Jazz never trading anyone and said to 'look at how the D-Will trade worked out.' Just curious of your position on it. Are you encouraged by that move and that gives you great faith in moving Kanter, or are you discouraged as it has led to zero playoff wins and one of the worst seasons in Jazz history?

 

[Siro]

None of those guys were perfect though. It's about time we as fans let the FO know that we will no longer accept anything less than perfection. Personally, I'm gonna continue to bitch about anything and everything until we have Jesus Christ at all 5 positions.

Undersized, rail thin, no college experience. No thanks.

 

[Jamezz]

None of those guys were perfect though. It's about time we as fans let the FO know that we will no longer accept anything less than perfection. Personally, I'm gonna continue to bitch about anything and everything until we have Jesus Christ at all 5 positions.

You annoy me so often but that **** was funny