Will An Immigration Deal Get Done?

[Stoked]

The lower the number of legal immigration the higher the number of illegal immigration. No wall is going to change that.

I'm essentially in favor of unlimited and expedited immigration of any non-criminals that want to come here.

Agreed. The wall will affect the amount of successful crossings but the #s will adjust like you said.

I am open to even more that 1.5 million. That is just a much more realistic starting point than .5 million IMO. I do support a merit based system though. But there are lots of types of merit, it's not always a college degree.

 

[Gameface]

The problem I have with the "merit" system is that a lot of the demand for immigrants is in unskilled manual labor fields. As long as there is a demand there will be a supply of poor people ready to fill it. If they can enter legally and expeditiously they will most likely pick legal immigration. If they cannot and/or the process takes years and doesn't have a good chance of success, more will opt to enter illegally.

I don't see the U.S. as an exclusive club for the "right kind" of person. I see it as a land of liberty and opportunity.

Now, I also support limiting public assistance for immigrants. If people come here it has to be so that they can work and support themselves, not so that they can soak up sweet government benefits.

 

[Eminence]

The lower the number of legal immigration the higher the number of illegal immigration. No wall is going to change that.

I'm essentially in favor of unlimited and expedited immigration of any non-criminals that want to come here.

Agreeing very strongly with this.

 

[franklin]

The problem I have with the "merit" system is that a lot of the demand for immigrants is in unskilled manual labor fields. As long as there is a demand there will be a supply of poor people ready to fill it. If they can enter legally and expeditiously they will most likely pick legal immigration. If they cannot and/or the process takes years and doesn't have a good chance of success, more will opt to enter illegally.

I don't see the U.S. as an exclusive club for the "right kind" of person. I see it as a land of liberty and opportunity.

Now, I also support limiting public assistance for immigrants. If people come here it has to be so that they can work and support themselves, not so that they can soak up sweet government benefits.

There's no free meal and we pay in one way or another. We currently save at the grocery store but pay for it in welfare benefits. $7/hr to pick lettuce isn't supporting anyone. It's a rigged market in the farmers' favor. My solution is to allow all farm workers to unionize. Farm workers could easily get paid $30/hr and you wouldn't notice much effect on your produce bill. It would also discourage illegal immigration as those jobs would start getting soaked up by current residents.

 

[Stoked]

The problem I have with the "merit" system is that a lot of the demand for immigrants is in unskilled manual labor fields. As long as there is a demand there will be a supply of poor people ready to fill it. If they can enter legally and expeditiously they will most likely pick legal immigration. If they cannot and/or the process takes years and doesn't have a good chance of success, more will opt to enter illegally.

I don't see the U.S. as an exclusive club for the "right kind" of person. I see it as a land of liberty and opportunity.

Now, I also support limiting public assistance for immigrants. If people come here it has to be so that they can work and support themselves, not so that they can soak up sweet government benefits.

Then that has merit does it not? What we are in need of and looking for and what they can provide should all be considered. Along with education, family, culture, personal history, medical records, criminal records, age... Would "merit" be a changeable bar based on the current administration at the time a person applies? Certainly lots of questions to answer.

I'm all for dramatically increasing the #s we let in. I also agree that the process is expensive, cumbersome and generally a deterrent to applicants.

 

[Stoked]

There's no free meal and we pay in one way or another. We currently save at the grocery store but pay for it in welfare benefits. $7/hr to pick lettuce isn't supporting anyone. It's a rigged market in the farmers' favor. My solution is to allow all farm workers to unionize. Farm workers could easily get paid $30/hr and you wouldn't notice much effect on your produce bill. It would also discourage illegal immigration as those jobs would start getting soaked up by current residents.

Very much this. The "leaches" narrative often pinned on illegals is wildly misrepresented and often flat out lied about. The U.S. rakes in billions per year off of their labor and taxes.

 

[franklin]

Very much this. The "leaches" narrative often pinned on illegals is wildly misrepresented and often flat out lied about. The U.S. rakes in billions per year off of their labor and taxes.

Don't forget the overall effect that population growth has on a modern economy, especially in the economy that the world relies on to grow. We are 25% of world GDP and pull the world along behind us. If we were to stagnate like Japan and Europe is trying to then the global economy would **** itself. You'd all forget Jazzfanz and start hunting deer, ducks, squirrels, pidgeons, and muskrat pretty quickly.

The other benefit is the add-on benefit to the economy. Welfare spending has one of the highest multiplier effects there is. Where do you think those food stamp dollars go? To the grocery store clerks and stockers, the food packaging companies, the butchers and bakers, all the businesses that spring up around this, and the farmers selling all that extra food. Almost all needed welfare ends right back up in private hands one way or another and increases tax revenue.

 

[♪alt13]

Then that has merit does it not? What we are in need of and looking for and what they can provide should all be considered. Along with education, family, culture, personal history, medical records, criminal records, age... Would "merit" be a changeable bar based on the current administration at the time a person applies? Certainly lots of questions to answer.

I'm all for dramatically increasing the #s we let in. I also agree that the process is expensive, cumbersome and generally a deterrent to applicants.

Nope. I don't want the federal government trying to measure the value of a human being. Especially considering the fact that many immigrants haven't yet had the opportunity to prove their merits. That's why they're coming here and once here most pass the test in my view. Let's spend money tracking bad guys instead of picking the "best guys".

If an applicant doesn't raise alarms with Homeland Security or the justice department they should be given entrance under a probationary period. During that time they should be given equal employment opportunity and enjoy the same labor protections and wage guarantees as a citizen. After completing their probationary period it should be a simple thing for them to apply for and be granted full citizenship. It should be done today. Our country would be better for it.

 

[Eminence]

Nope. I don't want the federal government trying to measure the value of a human being. Especially considering the fact that many immigrants haven't yet had the opportunity to prove their merits. That's why they're coming here and once here most pass the test in my view. Let's spend money tracking bad guys instead of picking the "best guys".

If an applicant doesn't raise alarms with Homeland Security or the justice department they should be given entrance under a probationary period. During that time they should be given equal employment opportunity and enjoy the same labor protections and wage guarantees as a citizen. After completing their probationary period it should be a simple thing for them to apply for and be granted full citizenship. It should be done today. Our country would be better for it.

I'd vote for Alt13

 

[♪alt13]

BTW any renters out there that are feeling the pinch of dramatically increasing rents can blame,at least in part, the construction labor shortage in our state.

 

[bigb]

My daughter’s soccer coach is from Liverpool, England. He’s lived in this country legally for years. His current work visa expired. Well before it expired, he began the process of applying for permanent residency. They’ve flat out denied it to him thus far. He’s been here legally for years, working the entire time, paying taxes, coaching soccer. Because of the ******** that our current process is; he had to quit his job, quit coaching soccer, and move out of state. It was either that or go back to England. His fiancée took a job in San Diego that she had earlier decided to turn down (turned it down because things were great here and they decided to stay) because he had to move anyway. He’s hired the best immigration attorney around who also said that there was basically nothing to be done but play the governments ******** games.
Our immigration system is completely and totally messed up.

 

[franklin]

My daughter’s soccer coach is from Liverpool, England. He’s lived in this country legally for years. His current work visa expired. Well before it expired, he began the process of applying for permanent residency. They’ve flat out denied it to him thus far. He’s been here legally for years, working the entire time, paying taxes, coaching soccer. Because of the ******** that our current process is; he had to quit his job, quit coaching soccer, and move out of state. It was either that or go back to England. His fiancée took a job in San Diego that she had earlier decided to turn down (turned it down because things were great here and they decided to stay) because he had to move anyway. He’s hired the best immigration attorney around who also said that there was basically nothing to be done but play the governments ******** games.
Our immigration system is completely and totally messed up.

And when he gets married it will take him several years and thousands of dollars to gain citizenship. That's the most absurd part of this whole fiasco IMO.