Will You Accept the Findings of the Muller Probe?

[One Brow]

Is your opinion that if Russia had not interfered the outcome would have been different?

I don't know. Anyone who say they are certain, one way or the other, is kidding themself.

 

[Hotdog]

Literally no one takes the position that only Fox news has bias. There is a difference between trolling and lying.

CNN's bias, as I have said before, is toward sensationalism. Any left-right bias is dwarfed by that. There are many left-biased networks, but CNN isn't one of them.

How do you figure CNN is not left leaning? If that were true, doesnt it make it odd then that stadiums full of Republicans chant "CNN sucks"?
Are they all just a bunch of Republicans mad about sensationalism?

Cmon man? Really? This is why we cant find common ground. We cant even get on the same page with just some simple truths. Somewhere you read that CNN is sensationalism, and havent even bothered to be objective about it. This is where liberals have their faults. You are too scared to go against the grain of your mad liberal party because you know you will be attacked and ostracized by your supposed own pepes. You live in fear. You dont objectively look at things. The leftists are trying to bully the **** out of people now, and its working on a lot of people. Its this self feeding monster. You bully each other into not daring go against your own propaganda. This is why you are unable to change your mind on something.

 

[silesian]

In real life, deciding not to indict means that not enough evidence exists to indict. There is no "well the evidence was there to indict, but they just decided not to." Mueller found no evidence of collusion, nor did he find enough evidence to recommend indictment. That's the facts. Everything else is various shades of editorializing, which usually isn't allowed in a grand jury report made public. And yet, it was released without objection by the DOJ.

Those are clearly not the facts. You are confusing this with a normal criminal case and totally missing the unique nature of Presidential impeachment.

Mueller declined to make a recommendation on obstruction mostly because the Office of Legal Counsel has concluded that a sitting president is immune from indictment. Mueller made clear that it is up to Congress to decide whether to use impeachment as a remedy.

This is spelled out explicitly and very clearly in the report. I suggest you read it.

 

[silesian]

Also I am going to need sourcing on the "Russia INFLUENCED the election" angle you trot out as a fact.

Do you believe the election would have been exactly the same with our without the Russian involvement? Come on, be serious.

I guess one could argue that Russian actions had zero influence on American voters. One could argue that not even one person fell for their clever trolling and bots. Certainly we've seen real voters engaged with the Russians and one could believe that it is remotely possible that absolutely every one of them would have voted for Trump without this influence.

But we can separate the theoretically possible to the "common sense" reality and admit that it is highly likely that all the Russian efforts were not completely wasted and ineffective and they fooled a certain percentage of the population. Heck, if they turned the right 0.08% of the voters (110,000) that is all they needed to get their guy in power.

 

[Zombie]

Do you believe the election would have been exactly the same with our without the Russian involvement? Come on, be serious.

I guess one could argue that Russian actions had zero influence on American voters. One could argue that not even one person fell for their clever trolling and bots. Certainly we've seen real voters engaged with the Russians and one could believe that it is remotely possible that absolutely every one of them would have voted for Trump without this influence.

But we can separate the theoretically possible to the "common sense" reality and admit that it is highly likely that all the Russian efforts were not completely wasted and ineffective and they fooled a certain percentage of the population. Heck, if they turned the right 0.08% of the voters (110,000) that is all they needed to get their guy in power.

I believe one of the biggest impacts the Russian efforts had in the campaign was simply in the hacking of the DNC servers. It seemed to me that this got muddled with Hillary's email scandal, and kind of gave that whole thing additional space in the public consciousness. It kept the notion alive that Hillary was some kind of corrupt monster.

 

[Hotdog]

Do you believe the election would have been exactly the same with our without the Russian involvement? Come on, be serious.

I guess one could argue that Russian actions had zero influence on American voters. One could argue that not even one person fell for their clever trolling and bots. Certainly we've seen real voters engaged with the Russians and one could believe that it is remotely possible that absolutely every one of them would have voted for Trump without this influence.

But we can separate the theoretically possible to the "common sense" reality and admit that it is highly likely that all the Russian efforts were not completely wasted and ineffective and they fooled a certain percentage of the population. Heck, if they turned the right 0.08% of the voters (110,000) that is all they needed to get their guy in power.

Even if they had the tiniest of influence on the election it still was not enough to counter the ridiculous influence the extremely large liberal media has in its minions all through the USA.

Why dont you tell the corrupt media to stop meddling in the elections? Just report the news and stop spewing fake news and propaganda.

 

[Hotdog]

I believe one of the biggest impacts the Russian efforts had in the campaign was simply in the hacking of the DNC servers. It seemed to me that this got muddled with Hillary's email scandal, and kind of gave that whole thing additional space in the public consciousness. It kept the notion alive that Hillary was some kind of corrupt monster.

Nobody forced Hillary to do what she did and be the person she is.

Yes, she is a corrupt monster.

 

[Hotdog]

Those are clearly not the facts. You are confusing this with a normal criminal case and totally missing the unique nature of Presidential impeachment.

Mueller declined to make a recommendation on obstruction mostly because the Office of Legal Counsel has concluded that a sitting president is immune from indictment. Mueller made clear that it is up to Congress to decide whether to use impeachment as a remedy.

This is spelled out explicitly and very clearly in the report. I suggest you read it.

You are forgetting that the investigation into Trump and Russia was not legitimate and therefore obstruction of justice to a crime you didnt commit isnt a crime at all. Its called protecting yourself from a corrupt deep state attack.

How about the Democrats are obstructing justice by not accepting the results of the investigation and trying screw with the Attorney General now?

Here, watch this video.

 

[The Thriller]

In real life, deciding not to indict means that not enough evidence exists to indict. There is no "well the evidence was there to indict, but they just decided not to." Mueller found no evidence of collusion, nor did he find enough evidence to recommend indictment. That's the facts. Everything else is various shades of editorializing, which usually isn't allowed in a grand jury report made public. And yet, it was released without objection by the DOJ.

Also I am going to need sourcing on the "Russia INFLUENCED the election" angle you trot out as a fact.

These “facts” are nothing more than right wing talking pts.
Mueller didn’t indict, because DOJ guidelines don’t enable him to indict.

As far as “no evidence of collusion”, that’s laughable. How many trumpers are going to prison now? Why did those in trump’s orbit lie about all their many Russian communications? Why is trump fighting so hard to keep mueller from testifying? Why was Mueller upset with the way Barr presented his report?

Cmon Trumpers. I know you feel like you’re part of an inclusive cult. But really you’re just embarrassing yourselves for all the world to see.

 

[silesian]

Even if they had the tiniest of influence on the election it still was not enough to counter the ridiculous influence the extremely large liberal media has in its minions all through the USA.

Why dont you tell the corrupt media to stop meddling in the elections? Just report the news and stop spewing fake news and propaganda.

Everyone is always picking on poor little Donnie. Always someone else's fault.

 

[silesian]

You are forgetting that the investigation into Trump and Russia was not legitimate and therefore obstruction of justice to a crime you didnt commit isnt a crime at all. Its called protecting yourself from a corrupt deep state attack.

You have swallowed the propaganda machine hook line and sinker. Soooooo gullible.

 

[silesian]

Just imagine if HRC's campaign chair and Chelsea had met with Kremlin representatives to get dirt on Trump? NPC would be wetting his pants.

 

[silesian]

Why dont you tell the corrupt media to stop meddling in the elections? Just report the news and stop spewing fake news and propaganda.

The true irony is that the inept media handed Trump the election by covering him extensively because he was a loose cannon and they could boost their ratings with his spouting of nonsense. If they had covered the qualified, substantive and and non-bigoted candidates, he would have been trounced. He should say "thank you very much" to CNN.

But then again, CNN gave him a platform to fail miserably and his family brand and empire will be lost due to his presidency. And he has exposed millions of bigots. So they may have done us a favor. The cockroaches are out of the woodworks.

 

[fishonjazz]

If Donald Trump weren’t president of the United States, he would have been charged with obstruction of justice, nearly 400 former federal prosecutors and Justice Department officials said Monday in an extraordinary public letter.

The joint statement, which had 379 signers by early afternoon, rebuts Attorney General William Barr’s assertion that the evidence of potential obstruction uncovered by special counsel Robert Mueller was “not sufficient” to establish that Trump committed a crime.

“Each of us believes that the conduct of President Trump described in Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report would, in the case of any other person not covered by the Office of Legal Counsel policy against indicting a sitting President, result in multiple felony charges for obstruction of justice,” the statement reads.

at least 10 episodes of efforts by Trump to obstruct the federal probe that the statement says satisfies all of the elements for an obstruction charge: “conduct that obstructed or attempted to obstruct the truth-finding process, as to which the evidence of corrupt intent and connection to pending proceedings is overwhelming.”

They include “the President’s efforts to fire Mueller and to falsify evidence about that effort; the President’s efforts to limit the scope of Mueller’s investigation to exclude his conduct; and the President’s efforts to prevent witnesses from cooperating with investigators probing him and his campaign.”

“Of course, there are potential defenses or arguments that could be raised in response to an indictment of the nature we describe here,” the former prosecutors add. “But, to look at these facts and say that a prosecutor could not probably sustain a conviction for obstruction of justice ... runs counter to logic and our experience.”

Trump has falsely claimed that the special counsel’s investigation exonerated him on both collusion and obstruction.

 

[LogGrad98]

I believe one of the biggest impacts the Russian efforts had in the campaign was simply in the hacking of the DNC servers. It seemed to me that this got muddled with Hillary's email scandal, and kind of gave that whole thing additional space in the public consciousness. It kept the notion alive that Hillary was some kind of corrupt monster.

This kind of sounds like you're blaming the kids that caught the other kid shop lifting rather than the kid that did the shoplifting.

 

[framer]

Those are clearly not the facts. You are confusing this with a normal criminal case and totally missing the unique nature of Presidential impeachment.

Mueller declined to make a recommendation on obstruction mostly because the Office of Legal Counsel has concluded that a sitting president is immune from indictment. Mueller made clear that it is up to Congress to decide whether to use impeachment as a remedy.

This is spelled out explicitly and very clearly in the report. I suggest you read it.

Except for there were a host of other people that would have been in trouble if there were the things in there that you want to be there. None of them had executive immunity. Where is the frog marching of Don Jr. or Kushner? You guys all but guaranteed that this would happen. Congress can impeach on anything they want to, they don't even need a reason at all. I mean, it's not advisable, but it is legal. Did Mueller state in the report that he wanted to indict Trump but that he couldn't? Go ahead and cite that.

And, if this was not a criminal case, what the Hell was the reason behind any of it? There would have been no reason at all for a Mueller. Your goalposts have moved so far.

 

[framer]

I don't know. Anyone who say they are certain, one way or the other, is kidding themself.

Have you seen the ads that the Russians ran on facebook? I'll comfortably state that they had no bearing on the outcome of the election. This reasoning would also assume that I could influence the election by running ads on facebook with less money than I owe on my mortgage. If that were possible, literally thousands of other entities would have attempted the same with more resources.

 

[framer]

If Donald Trump weren’t president of the United States, he would have been charged with obstruction of justice, nearly 400 former federal prosecutors and Justice Department officials said Monday in an extraordinary public letter.

The joint statement, which had 379 signers by early afternoon, rebuts Attorney General William Barr’s assertion that the evidence of potential obstruction uncovered by special counsel Robert Mueller was “not sufficient” to establish that Trump committed a crime.

“Each of us believes that the conduct of President Trump described in Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report would, in the case of any other person not covered by the Office of Legal Counsel policy against indicting a sitting President, result in multiple felony charges for obstruction of justice,” the statement reads.

at least 10 episodes of efforts by Trump to obstruct the federal probe that the statement says satisfies all of the elements for an obstruction charge: “conduct that obstructed or attempted to obstruct the truth-finding process, as to which the evidence of corrupt intent and connection to pending proceedings is overwhelming.”

They include “the President’s efforts to fire Mueller and to falsify evidence about that effort; the President’s efforts to limit the scope of Mueller’s investigation to exclude his conduct; and the President’s efforts to prevent witnesses from cooperating with investigators probing him and his campaign.”

“Of course, there are potential defenses or arguments that could be raised in response to an indictment of the nature we describe here,” the former prosecutors add. “But, to look at these facts and say that a prosecutor could not probably sustain a conviction for obstruction of justice ... runs counter to logic and our experience.”

Trump has falsely claimed that the special counsel’s investigation exonerated him on both collusion and obstruction.

And yet, not one of these people were hired to do Mueller's job. His conclusions are the only ones that matter. He punted. These people do not matter at all.

 

[framer]

Just imagine if HRC's campaign chair and Chelsea had met with Kremlin representatives to get dirt on Trump? NPC would be wetting his pants.

Just imagine that they had hired an international actor to inject Russian-fed propaganda into the FBI as a pretext for spying on a campaign. Oh wait, we don't have to imagine it, because that happened.

 

[Red]

For any clown who still thinks the Democrats are stuck on stupid, here is the statement, released Monday and signed by 375 former federal prosecutors, and counting, and who served in both Democrat and Republican administrations, and stating, that if not for the DOJ policy of not indicting a sitting president, that it is their opinion that the Mueller report provides sufficient evidence to have charged Trump with obstruction of justice.

And for any clown who thinks it ain't a crime to obstruct if there is no underlying crime, think long and hard what obstruction of justice represents in and of itself, and what it means to be this certain that the chief executive of the United States was engaged in obstruction of justice. Quite the role model.