"Williams Brothers" remarks Racist?
- Thread starter DutchJazzer
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Eh, to me it is merely unattractive.
Willie
Member
I don't know you very well (obviously), but your most defining characteristic might be your anger, which manifests in a really self-righteous way. But I also get the sense that you're better than that.... but then you'll leave comments like "congratulations" to a thoughtful post from a stranger. It's pretty confused/confusing.
To the point at hand, it seems clear to me that you haven't done any in-depth study of the history of racism against black people, whether that's here in the USA or over in Europe. And it's clear to me that One Brow has. What's not clear to me is why you stick so mightily to your sense of things given your lack of study. I just don't understand why you have to defend your positions.
There is a history of rendering black women in masculine terms. This is adjacent to holding all women to European standards of beauty. Within this history, there is a lot of hyper-sexualizing black people as well as denigrating their sexuality. The latter applies to this case. Anyway, this is all pretty clear in the historical record, if you care to look into it.
Then there's the whole issue of your desire to tell someone in a minority that their experience of repression is wrong rather than hear what they have to say and then forming your own well-informed opinion. You're just short-circuiting all that with laziness.
Anyway, whatever it is that's put a thorn in your side - it's probably not worth it.
My cognratulations was in no way condescending or angry.
My congratualation was just that. Good for you for standing up for what you believe in even when it is the minority on a specific issue. That is always a good thing. Yes I was vague so it could easily be taken in a rude way. It wasn't meant that way.
Lol, this entire post is full of nothing but assumptions about me. Perhaps you should stop doing that. Especially since, as you have said, "I don't know you very well".
He refered to two specific women who happen to be black. Your and One Brows claim is that since they are black it has to be about race. There cannot be any other reason. Correct?
If so I disagree with that. Perhaps he is racist but I do not see it here and I will not throw out charges of racism so easily.
They both matter, but only one needs be present.
We all carry around our culture, and use with, without thinking about it much. I'm glad you are not buying your version of what I said, because it would be pretty much the opposite of what I am saying in that regard.
They look like women.
Do you walk around scared of every person who's 6 feet tall and had some muscles? That must be very difficult for you to live that way. How do you manage to leave the house?
I disagree with this absolute you try and push. But what's new lol.
The question is not if one can find instances where somebody was called scary for something having nothing to do with race. The question is if there are instances where people are called "scary" looking just(or largely) because of their race. (for me the answer is yes) And the most important question regarding this instance is whether it is the former or the latter for this specific case. Quite frankly, I don't have enough information to call it one way or the other, so when it comes to calling somebody a racist I'd refrain unless I knew with large degree of certainty that this is the case.
The thing the guy said was bad enough without having to attach the racist label to it.
There are certainly many, many differences.
Russia's three longest boarders are with Kazakhstan, Mongolia, and China (all Asian countries). In recent history, they've been involved in nasty wars against Afghanistan and Japan. It's hard to take you seriously at all if you say there isn't much experience there.
There is enough cultural emnity against Afro-Russians that it is an issue in Russia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Russian
I agree.
Again, I agree. I think our only disagreement here is over the specific context of Russia.
Not because of his appearance, though. Check the OP again.
That is, if it does not trigger your fear of everyone over 6 feet tall with some musculature. I would not want you to suffer in that way.
Incorrect. Racism is a contributing influence, but there are always other influences at play. For example, he would not have made that remark about the sisters if they had never won a Grand Slam event, just as much as he would not have made it had they not been black.
Saying that both personal animus and cultural context matters, and either can be called racism even when the other is not present, is an "absolute"? What would you consider "moderate"?
Huh? Sorry, but you kind of lost me there. I couldn't follow that on my best day, and this certainly isn't.
What I'm saying is that this RUSSIAN dude understands the cultural connotations (or whatever the wording was) of how the term scary might come across to African AMERICAN women and chose that moment to drop that bomb? Pardon my skepticism.
Yes, I agreed you should be skeptical of that.
I meant specifically experience within their own population, as I stated. The nasty wars is a separate thing. Pretty much any country in the world has been in a war with countries of all kinds of creeds/races. What I mean is that the regular Russian people don't usually come across people of those races(40K black people in a country of 150 million is hardly significant) on a daily basis and aren't conditioned enough for such cultural memes to really exist in the way they do in a country like the US where significant portion of the population is Asian or black or Hispanic.
I've lived almost all my life in a country with very similar cultural make up and very similar % of black people in the population. I can tell you that among the regular people such memes simply don't exist. People just don't meet enough black people for them to even think enough about them in order to put them into such stereotypes. What I would admit is that there are fringe groups(usually neo-nazi groups, football hooligan groups, extreme right wing groups) that might try to create tension between the population and such minority groups, but they are miniscule compared to the general public and in no way form the cultural characteristic of the whole nation.
Are you saying there isn't a problem with racism in Russia? Because from everything I've read and heard, it is a serious problem, specially for black people. I mean, don't African students and workers in Russia get attacked often. Aren't they sometimes murdered?
No, I am sure there is some racism, I am just not sure the same cultural memes reign among the population. The attacks are usually done by very small portion of the population(neo-nazis, skinhead groups, extreme right wing groups). And unfortunately, the fact that it is small portion of the population that causes most problems, doesn't mean that small portion of the population can't cause huge damage. What I was arguing about is that in the context of this case it is not good idea to assume that the same cultural memes are spread among another society as they are in the US.
For example, I've been around some of the more radical groups in my country(football/soccer fans) and I can't remember hearing the "scary" stereotype ever mentioned. And outside of those groups, you practically never talk about black people ever! Whatever distrust there is, is more on the grounds of xenophobia(the otherness) than on grounds of negative stereotyping. I don't know if that makes sense...
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Ok.
[size/HUGE] boobs [/size]
Banned
You are acting like purification Benghazi Republicans.
We do not have problem in Russia. What you read in West is condemnation of our minority neo-nazi sporting community. In west you respond with shock and censure because you have Orwellian Thought Police in charge. In Russia we believe in human right to self expression. We believe the bad should be shown along with good so that our peoples can see it in light of day and frown down upon despicable acts.
Western media scream in outrage when they see neo-nazi flash a sign at football game. The real problem is Russophobes do not want Russia to host 2018 World Cup and use this for excuse to hurt us.
Use it for your purist ideals if you must but realize it is silly battle.