Woman caught on camera trying to frame Police Officer

[TroutBum]

Long, multiquoted posts are awesome.

I agree.

 

[Hantlers]

How hard is it to show your ID and receipt?

 

[QuinSnydersHair]

How hard is it to show your ID and receipt?

Tough if you're an *******.

 

[Gameface]

How hard is it to show your ID and receipt?

It isn't hard.

It also isn't hard to let police search your car when you get pulled over for not using your turn signal.

It's also not hard to let police check your pockets when they stop you on the street because they're not sure why you're where you are.

It also wouldn't be hard to let police look around your house because someone called them on a noise disturbance.

None of it is hard, that's why for the most part we all cooperate. But we don't have to. The fact that cooperating with requests made by police has become customary makes one seem like a raging lunatic when they don't want to cooperate when they're perfectly within their rights not to.

 

[Gameface]

Long, multiquoted posts are awesome.

For real though.

It ain't like I like the guy in the video and want to be his friend, but I can empathize with him. I think his ultra annoying behavior is due in part because he's extremely nervous and fearful. He's taking a stand, right or wrong, and the person he's taking a stand against is armed and could use any level of physical force against him at any moment and if that happened it's more likely that annoying guy would get charged with a crime than the officer facing any consequences whatsoever.

 

[Hantlers]

It isn't hard.

It also isn't hard to let police search your car when you get pulled over for not using your turn signal.

It's also not hard to let police check your pockets when they stop you on the street because they're not sure why you're where you are.

It also wouldn't be hard to let police look around your house because someone called them on a noise disturbance.

None of it is hard, that's why for the most part we all cooperate. But we don't have to. The fact that cooperating with requests made by police has become customary makes one seem like a raging lunatic when they don't want to cooperate when they're perfectly within their rights not to.

Not exactly comparable situations. Show him your id and receipt and move on with life.

 

[moevillini]

For real though.

It ain't like I like the guy in the video and want to be his friend, but I can empathize with him. I think his ultra annoying behavior is due in part because he's extremely nervous and fearful. He's taking a stand, right or wrong, and the person he's taking a stand against is armed and could use any level of physical force against him at any moment and if that happened it's more likely that annoying guy would get charged with a crime than the officer facing any consequences whatsoever.

I agree with these thoughts. Who knows what sort of harassment the man (the shopper) has been put through in the past that is influencing the way he is handling this situation. Though I do have a bit of a suspicion that he's also milking the situation for all its worth due to the recent Ferguson incidents. Seems a bit intentional to me the way he comments how the officer is trying to "Mike Brown" him - - too much grandstanding.

Almost thinking perhaps the entire episode was staged for Youtube.
Never know these days... Maybe I'm just too suspicious...

Also, just want say that I know there have been incidents in my past where I behaved badly in the face of what I felt was unfair harassment by someone who was in a position to exercise some control over me (or my actions). So again, I can have some empathy for this guy.

 

[VINYLONE]

Didn't want to create another thread for this but look at something an officer has to deal with. They have to wake up and deal with things like this. Not to mention all the life threatening situations they are in that are way worse than this.

Without knowing what the original call was about it's hard to comment on this video. That said, Pennsylvania is NOT a "stop and identify" state so the officer has no legal right to ask for ID. Once the guy gives him his name that should be enough for the officer to check his system. If the officers chooses to detain or arrest than that's a different story.

 

[VINYLONE]

Aside from asking for ID, which from what I understand is absolutely standard procedure (no matter how silly it seems), I failed to see any instance where this cop was out of line.

You're wrong and talking out of your ***.

 

[QuinSnydersHair]

Without knowing what the original call was about it's hard to comment on this video. That said, Pennsylvania is NOT a "stop and identify" state so the officer has no legal right to ask for ID. Once the guy gives him his name that should be enough for the officer to check his system. If the officers chooses to detain or arrest than that's a different story.

Officer Dick on the case

 

[TroutBum]

You're wrong and talking out of your ***.

From here, ID laws only get more complicated. In Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, the Supreme Court upheld state laws requiring citizens to reveal their identity when officers have reasonable suspicion to believe criminal activity may be taking place. Commonly known as “stop-and-identify” statutes, these laws permit police to arrest criminal suspects who refuse to identify themselves.

As of 2013, 24 states had stop-and-identify laws. Regardless of your state’s law, keep in mind that police can never compel you to identify yourself without reasonable suspicion to believe you’re involved in illegal activity.

I'd say I was talking out of my pee-hole, maybe, but not my ***.

Also, I'm sort of bummed that nobody bothered to refute my *** kicking debunking of this alleged harassment.

 

[Gameface]

From here, ID laws only get more complicated. In Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, the Supreme Court upheld state laws requiring citizens to reveal their identity when officers have reasonable suspicion to believe criminal activity may be taking place. Commonly known as “stop-and-identify” statutes, these laws permit police to arrest criminal suspects who refuse to identify themselves.

As of 2013, 24 states had stop-and-identify laws. Regardless of your state’s law, keep in mind that police can never compel you to identify yourself without reasonable suspicion to believe you’re involved in illegal activity.

I'd say I was talking out of my pee-hole, maybe, but not my ***.

Also, I'm sort of bummed that nobody bothered to refute my *** kicking debunking of this alleged harassment.

Dude, are you talking about your Salty Dawgg vs One Brow style multi-quote? Dude, I gots bronchitis from that ****.

 

[TroutBum]

Or it was such a solid defense that you opted out of a real answer.

It's cool bro.

 

[Gameface]

Or it was such a solid defense that you opted out of a real answer.

It's cool bro.

Ahh man. It ain't gonna happen right now but I'll answer every last point you made for better or worse later tonight. Be forewarned, I'm drinking hard liquor for the first time in about a year and a half.

(no porn bomb, I promised Jason)

 

[TroutBum]

Ahh man. It ain't gonna happen right now but I'll answer every last point you made for better or worse later tonight. Be forewarned, I'm drinking hard liquor for the first time in about a year and a half.

(no porn bomb, I promised Jason)

If this is all I get for Christmas, then I will die a happy man!

 

[moevillini]

Without knowing what the original call was about it's hard to comment on this video.

not for me!



But you make a good point - the video doesn't start at the very beginning of the encounter so it's tough to know what brought about the initial confrontation

That said, Pennsylvania is NOT a "stop and identify" state so the officer has no legal right to ask for ID. Once the guy gives him his name that should be enough for the officer to check his system. If the officers chooses to detain or arrest than that's a different story.

Between you and Trout, I'm learning a lot here.

At any rate, in this specific instance, it appears the cop KNOWS the guy from some prior encounter, so I'm not sure why he's so insistent on needing to see ID - - especially since at the end, it seems to be the receipt that counts, not the ID.

 

[Gameface]

not for me!



But you make a good point - the video doesn't start at the very beginning of the encounter so it's tough to know what brought about the initial confrontation



Between you and Trout, I'm learning a lot here.

At any rate, in this specific instance, it appears the cop KNOWS the guy from some prior encounter, so I'm not sure why he's so insistent on needing to see ID - - especially since at the end, it seems to be the receipt that counts, not the ID.

If you watch a few videos of people not being cooperative with police you'll quickly discover that police often make requests, that one can voluntarily comply with or not, as if they are giving a legal order that you must comply with or face consequences. What's worse is that not complying with these voluntary requests often actually does have consequences even though they are not supposed to. Having a camera rolling is a very good way not to get beaten up and accused of things you did not do.

 

[Gameface]

If this is all I get for Christmas, then I will die a happy man!

I'm going to have to save this for this afternoon.

 

[TroutBum]

I'm going to have to save this for this afternoon.

Another year, another lump of coal.




Ka.

 

[Gameface]

Ahh ****, here it goes. Like I said, for better or worse. No pulling punches or dodging questions. If I end up looking like an *** and a loon, well, I'm probably going to end up looking like an *** and a loon.

Merry Solstice!

First off...ugh. I've got to open up two windows to know what you're responding to. This is tedious. Multi-quotes, I hate them.

It's garbage like this that makes me see HH's point of view; we all know how I feel about HH's point of view.

Yeah, the Thriller is easily one of the most racist and almost definitely the most misogynistic posters on this web site. I invite anyone to peruse his post history and find that he hates Mexicans, hates women, thinks if you're black you're not too smart and abuse the welfare system, and on and on. The dude is straight dirt. If his mother is proud of him then she's probably a truck stop hooker.

Awesomeness.

I don't ever advocate suicide. I'm coming up on a difficult anniversary. But if anyone felt the need to go I could see Thriller being that guy.

Maybe we watched different videos? I see the cop asking for ID, which I agree, seems pretty silly considering the cop knows the guy, followed by *** Hat being a total *** hat. The second that *** Hat put his hands on the Walmart employee is the second that I would have tackled his *** to the ground and arrested him. The cop was asking *** Hat for his receipt, and *** Hat wouldn't give it up. That is the second moment that I would tackle his *** and arrested him. Simple scenario: You've got a paid Walmart employee who undoubtedly has to stand there and check receipts because of **** head thieves. Since *** Hat didn't want to show his receipt, it's safe to assume that *** Hat didn't pay for the merchandise. The cop is then called over. The only thing I saw in that video was *** Hat assaulting one of the employees (you can't put your hands on people like that; the employee could have reached out and knocked *** Hat out and would have been totally within his right) and possibly a theft. Aside from asking for ID, which from what I understand is absolutely standard procedure (no matter how silly it seems), I failed to see any instance where this cop was out of line. In fact, I think he showed amazing restraint -- of which I'm sure the camera recording the whole thing played a major part -- and deserves absolutely none of the criticism he is getting.

First, this particular officer is very patient. I've met several really awesome police officers who really intend to do good and be an ally of the common man. I'm willing to assume this officer is one of those guys.

But...But, let's say someone is leaving my house after a poker game where money went missing. If I hold them up and demand they prove that they didn't steal any money you want to know what I'm guilty of? Muther ****ing kidnapping! That **** is serious. I'd say short of murder and aggravated rape, kidnapping is one of the most serious crimes a person could commit. Let's look at something else. Let's say my wife and I get into an argument. She's done talking after she's just called me out on a dozen different BS things. I want to explain myself but she's heading for the door. I jump in front of her and stand between her and the door. You know what I just did? I just kidnapped her *** and I'm prone to get ****ed hard.

Point? You can't hold someone up who wants to be on their way. You can't detain someone because you feel like it. People are free to go about their business unless they are being placed under arrest. Did they have a reason to arrest this guy? If not, then when he asserts his desire to be on his way you need to let him get on his way. Under regular circumstances not doing so is called kidnapping.

Oh man, I agree 110% with all of this. Unfortunately, that is not how it is done. It's cool to criticize the officer for just following the rules though. Because he's the one who wrote the laws. Or something.

I don't get a lot of feedback about what I think is a really really good idea. I think in civics class kids should be taught about standard police interactions and how they are expected to behave in those situations. I want a highly professional police force that conduct business according to a set of standard protocols and a public that is familiar with those standard protocols and knows how they are required by law to act in those situations. I think it would save lives. I think it would prevent people from getting aggressive with police officers. I think it makes sense and should happen. It isn't a fantasy idea, it's totally possible right now.

Why even bother trying to make a point when you're not even sure what's going on. Moreover, who cares if he's an off-duty cop, a construction worker, or a peanut farmer? He was there for security purposes and he was just doing his job

Last year at this time I was working as a mall security guard (you should have seen me standing between the mob and Victoria's Secret on black friday as they damn near rioted over discounted panties. I took my life in my hands and yelled that crowd into submission while physically standing between them and what they seemed willing to kill for). I saw the police working off the clock for Nordstroms, etc. They are in a city uniform working for a private enterprise. In that capacity they can still enforce laws, but they are explicitly there to protect the interest of a business. I don't know 100% that that is what that officer is doing but I'm more than 90% sure. I'm honest, so I acknowledge when I don't know things for certain. But I'm making an educated guess. Take it for what it's worth...as I always say.

100% of the customers who leave COSTCO go through the same thing. Here's a possibility: Maybe the Walmart employee didn't want to check the receipt to make sure the guy wasn't stealing anything, but rather, he was asking to see the receipt so he could make a mark on it, like they do at COSTCO, to keep people from coming in the store later with that same receipt and claiming that their cartload of stolen stuff was actually paid for. I'm sure it wasn't that, but probably just another PIG out trying to put the Black Man down.

I'd be happy for someone to inform us as to the legality of detaining customers at the store entrance to check receipts. I don't know, tbpfhwy. If you don't actually have cause to suspect theft my guess would be that you can REQUEST they show receipt but cannot actually detain them.

"May I see your receipt?"

"No, go **** yourself."

"Okay, have a nice day."


Judging strictly by the video, someone called the cop over because of a disturbance. Judging by the way *** Hat was reacting, I feel pretty confident that *** Hat was, in fact, causing a disturbance. Again, I don't know why the cop asked for ID, but I bet it has something to do with what was going on, not "just because [he wanted] to see it".

If you are being illegally detained (kidnapped) please feel free to scream and yell (aka, causing a disturbance). Had this been Johnnie Cochran I'm sure he'd have had the security guards and police officers acting politely towards him. Alas, this was just a simple peasant who needed to show proper respect and endure whatever hassle and delay his masters saw fit for him.

Clearly. He wants so desperately to get on with his affairs that instead of just show his receipt, like every other person in THE UNIVERSE has to do, he decided to make a huge scene and waste everyone's time.

I have frequently left WalMart and noticed the greeter checking receipts. I typically don't make eye contact and walk past them. I'm a white guy, so they don't seem to care too much and don't try to physically restrain me for not knowing my place.

Well, ya, sort of. Why even bother giving a "proof of purchase" if it's not OK to ask for that proof? Thank goodness they make it as simple as "Please show me a piece of paper that was just handed to you thirty seconds ago, while you push your cart past me, thus taking all of three seconds of your valuable time", or else I could see things getting ugly...

Receipts are not "I didn't steal this" notes. They allow you to return items that you've taken possession of, or for tax records, or for whatever you the consumer chooses. I'm typically wadding my receipt into a ball and tossing it into the garbage as I leave Wal Mart.

Doubtful. The police can't either. But when an employee and then a cop asks to see your receipt and you don't show them...?

If a cop stops me for speeding and asks to search my car, if I say no does that mean I'm hiding something?

I'm not lawyer, so I can't comment on your first question. As for your second question, the answer is no, but it most definitely shows probable cause, which is why this whole scenario went down the way it did.

Yeah, I'd like someone to chime in if they know. SKA? Anyone? But standing up for your rights, refusing to be searched, etc. These are not indications that you are guilty. Please, don't be intimidated into giving up your rights. To me that is very important. I know others would rather comply and get on with their day, but when we allow these intrusions to become commonplace we erode our rights. Maybe I'm silly, but I feel very strongly about this.

Except this situation wasn't arbitrary. As far as I can tell, *** Hat was never detained, and if that encounter equals "interrogation", then I'd hate to see what happens in GITMO.

In GITMO human beings are held without charge, without trial and for indefinite periods. GITMO is no kind of example for the way to treat human beings.

Holy **** balls Batman, stop painting this guy like some sort of victim. He wasn't asked to "submit" his house, his belongings, his family, his freedom, his rights, or anything that would actually matter -- he was asked to "submit" his receipt, just like millions of people around the world are asked to do every single day. This entire episode is 100% the fault of *** Hat, period.

​It would have been faster and easier to submit. But for whatever reason this guy had had enough and decided to exercise his rights. It's a sad ****ing day when being a man and demanding to be treated like the best of us would expect equals deserving harassment and hostility because we forgot that we were less than those who would never tolerate such treatment.

This is insane. If people don't want to follow the rules of civilized society, put into place by officials that are chosen by that same society, then those people will reap the consequences. There are plenty of injustices going on in this country, this situation ain't one of them.

This situation is pretty minor, for sure...except for the guy who had had enough and decided to stand up this one time.

Except that you don't know if that's what is going on here, and Wal-Mart is a publicly traded company. And actually, public and private businesses have the right to protect their assets from being stolen just as much as anyone else; why should Wal-Mart be different than any other business?

If they had reason to believe he was stealing (a real reason) then they would have physically detained him. They would have been within their rights.

Sad. Bravo to the guy who is actually hurting your cause? While the people who actually make it their business to get policy changed, laws changed, and mostly, minds changed get little to no attention? Right on. Good for you, *** Hat, you did it bro.

This was just one guy taking his stand as big or as small as it was. I applaud him. You don't. It's fine. This was important to him. He actually put himself in danger by doing this. Was it meaningless...to the rest of the world, yeah, probably so. To him, well, maybe he wanted to feel like a man and not bow down to a police officer filling the role of a pathetic *** security guard. Turns out he didn't have to show his ID and he didn't have to hand over his receipt. Funny how the rules change when you don't just comply like a ****ing cow.

Love and kisses as always, Dave.