Zimmerman/Martin Case

[JimLes]

Do I have your ideal response to a robbery correct, or at some point would it have been okay to resist him?

You might find this shocking, but there are people out there who don't believe that violence is the answer to anything. They're not all Amish or hippies, either. I would categorically say that I would not take another life under any circumstances. Not even in self-defense. I don't know if I'd go as far as say that I would not use any violence ever, but I would say that I would keep my opposition to killing in mind before I get involved in any violent situation.

But this isn't about that. This is about whether or not you believe that your paramount duty is to protect your material possession or preserve human life. It's pretty clear from the story that Zimmerman believed the former to be true. I find that depressing.

 

[JimLes]

I wonder what everyone's take would be if Zimmerman didn't have a gun and got his head bashed in to the point where he was comatose or dead because he confronted Martin?

That would, of course, be a whole different story, though I'd still ask why Zimmerman felt the need to confront someone he thought "suspicious" instead of calling the cops.

 

[franklin]

You might find this shocking, but there are people out there who don't believe that violence is the answer to anything. They're not all Amish or hippies, either. I would categorically say that I would not take another life under any circumstances. Not even in self-defense. I don't know if I'd go as far as say that I would not use any violence ever, but I would say that I would keep my opposition to killing in mind before I get involved in any violent situation.

But this isn't about that. This is about whether or not you believe that your paramount duty is to protect your material possession or preserve human life. It's pretty clear from the story that Zimmerman believed the former to be true. I find that depressing.

You know, you're really lucky Gameface is such a badass who would use physical force to restrict this person as his first option. Most Americans are chicken **** wannabe cowboys who would shoot the person on the spot and worry later if he was with a gang of meth heads who would assault his family while Gameface is busy rolling around with the good chap.

I say you just get out of the way of these criminals gangs because the majority of them have no intentions of raping your daughter who they are standing between you and her room. They also don't want to be seen and will never incite violence when you catch them in their act of burglary. It's best you just hide under your bed until they are gone.

Do you realize yet how absurd you sound?

 

[One Brow]

I wonder what everyone's take would be if Zimmerman didn't have a gun and got his head bashed in to the point where he was comatose or dead because he confronted Martin?

Depending on the circumstances and what would have come out, Martin may have been able to claim self-defense. I don't think he would be at fault, regardfless.

That would, of course, be a whole different story, though I'd still ask why Zimmerman felt the need to confront someone he thought "suspicious" instead of calling the cops.

Zimmerman did call the cops. The cops told Zimmerman that there was no need to follow Martin. Zimmerman followed Martin anyhow.

 

[One Brow]

You know, you're really lucky Gameface is such a badass who would use physical force to restrict this person as his first option. Most Americans are chicken **** wannabe cowboys who would shoot the person on the spot and worry later if he was with a gang of meth heads who would assault his family while Gameface is busy rolling around with the good chap.

I say you just get out of the way of these criminals gangs because the majority of them have no intentions of raping your daughter who they are standing between you and her room. They also don't want to be seen and will never incite violence when you catch them in their act of burglary. It's best you just hide under your bed until they are gone.

Do you realize yet how absurd you sound?

Yeah, bringing in that meth-head gang was so reasonable, by comparison.

 

[JimLes]

Zimmerman did call the cops. The cops told Zimmerman that there was no need to follow Martin. Zimmerman followed Martin anyhow.

I was talking about the hypothetical scenario where he doesn't get the gun, but yeah, I guess we should assume that everything else happened the same way before.

Of course, race already is a huge part of this story, so it still would be had Martin pummeled him. Most of the stuff surrounding this story is spin, anyway.

 

[Scat]

That would, of course, be a whole different story, though I'd still ask why Zimmerman felt the need to confront someone he thought "suspicious" instead of calling the cops.

The cops had been called numerous times prior to this night's events with no positive results. Zimmerman's experience was that the cops never arrived until after the suspect(s) escaped.

Again, the gun was not discharged until Zimmerman was physically assaulted.

 

[JimLes]

I say you just get out of the way of these criminals gangs because the majority of them have no intentions of raping your daughter who they are standing between you and her room. They also don't want to be seen and will never incite violence when you catch them in their act of burglary. It's best you just hide under your bed until they are gone.

I'd be very sad if the world I lived in was anything like the world you imagine us all living in.

 

[JimLes]

The cops had been called numerous times prior to this night's events with no positive results. Zimmerman's experience was that the cops never arrived until after the suspect(s) escaped.

Again, the gun was not discharged until Zimmerman was physically assaulted.

Which doesn't change the fact that Zimmerman was playing vigilante. Just because the cops don't do anything, you don't have the right to mount your own investigation, decided who the suspect is, confront them, try to detain them, etc.

Zimmerman did not catch Martin doing anything illegal.

 

[Hartsock]

If you dont want to get shot stay out of other peoples houses. Pretty simple. That being said I dont own a gun, because I'm tough as nails.

 

[One Brow]

The cops had been called numerous times prior to this night's events with no positive results.

You mean, no results outside of the actual burglar being arrested some 19 days before the shooting, right?

 

[Scat]

You mean, no results outside of the actual burglar being arrested some 19 days before the shooting, right?

IIRC there were 3-4 suspects and only one was caught.

 

[franklin]

I'd be very sad if the world I lived in was anything like the world you imagine us all living in.

No no I live in a utopia. All these recent news stories about children getting abducted out of their homes, raped, murdered & buried in a nearby field are all made up by the right wing media fear mongering us all into gun ownership because there are bogey men out there somewhere even though noone ever actually encounters any of them.

You wouldn't believe it but every once in a while they create a rock star out of one of these supposed abductees and trot them in front of the camera for years to decades. This works so well that people are buying guns at an alarming rate and even dogs. I read the alarm companies are behind this media conspiracy because the more home invasions and abductions the more alarm systems they sell.

 

[JimLes]

No no I live in a utopia. All these recent news stories about children getting abducted out of their homes, raped, murdered & buried in a nearby field are all made up by the right wing media fear mongering us all into gun ownership because there are bogey men out there somewhere even though noone ever actually encounters any of them.

I'd point out the statistical likelihood of this happening, but I don't think you're interested in actually debating this.

Also, real life isn't a video game. You don't just pull out your gun, blow away the baddies, then ride into the sunset and enter your 3 initials on the high score screen.

 

[JimLes]

IIRC there were 3-4 suspects and only one was caught.

So we ought to logically assume that at least one of the other three would return to the scene of the crime?

 

[franklin]

I'd point out the statistical likelihood of this happening, but I don't think you're interested in actually debating this.

Believe me I'm very interested in how many occupied home invasions end in no harm. At what point do I say screw my family's security because statistically speaking this good natured fellow breaking into my house is unlikely to attack any of us? 20%? 15%? What is the security of my family worth to you?

Also, real life isn't a video game. You don't just pull out your gun, blow away the baddies, then ride into the sunset and enter your 3 initials on the high score screen.

This is true. Us John Waynes usually drink until we pass out and wouldn't wake to a home intrusion. I'm counting on my wife loading and firing the gun. It's my way of dealing with any potential mental drama in advance. Got to think smart kid.

 

[Gameface]

I'd be very sad if the world I lived in was anything like the world you imagine us all living in.

What's really sad is that IS how the world is and you don't realize it.

I support your right to be a pacifist. I would even go so far as to fight for your right to be a pacifist. What I wouldn't tolerate, however, is any attempt you might make to strip me of my right to defend myself.

 

[JimLes]

This is true. Us John Waynes usually drink until we pass out and wouldn't wake to a home intrusion. I'm counting on my wife loading and firing the gun. It's my way of dealing with any potential mental drama in advance. Got to think smart kid.

Oh yes. Because, usually, the bad men who invade your home don't stop to think that you might be armed so they barge in making lots of noise and making sure you have plenty of time to wake up, load your gun, and blow them away.

 

[Gameface]

Oh yes. Because, usually, the bad men who invade your home don't stop to think that you might be armed so they barge in making lots of noise and making sure you have plenty of time to wake up, load your gun, and blow them away.

Wake up and then load the gun? You mean wake up and pull the loaded gun out from under my pillow, right?

kidding

 

[JimLes]

W
I support your right to be a pacifist. I would even go so far as to fight for your right to be a pacifist. What I wouldn't tolerate, however, is any attempt you might make to strip me of my right to defend myself.

Despite what Franklin is suggesting, I'm not against your right to defend yourself. I am all for you having the right to self-defense. Not something I would do, but I respect that you would. I don't, however, believe that one should equate their life(or their family's lives) with material possessions.