Zimmerman/Martin Case

[Gameface]

Zimmerman walks. I'll take any comers at any stakes.

 

[Deleted member 365]

A father is an AUTHORITY (legally recognized) in regard to his daughter. The 9-11 operator (not a law enforcement officer) suggested Zimmerman not pursue. 9-11 operators have zero legal authority over anyone.

9-11 operators ALWAYS suggest you do the least confrontational thing. The law does not require that.

The case against Zimmerman is weak. Super weak. All the anti-Zimmerman people think Zimmerman needs to prove justification for killing Martin. That's not the case, the state needs to prove Zimmerman did not have justification. Much more difficult.

Your posts above about Zimmerman's case being about smearing Martin...They just concluded the phase of the trial regarding what evidence could be presented. Obviously the defense wants as much damaging evidence against Martin to be admitted as possible. Doesn't mean they have to use it, but if they get it approved by the judge it becomes another arrow in their quiver. The judge ruled mostly against Zimmerman, saying only if the prosecution enters evidence that makes Martin's actions outside the incident with Zimmerman relevant can the defense bring it up. Had the defense not tried to enter that evidence they would have been incompetent.

I don't have much time here, but you're confusing the age of the daughter and legal authority of the father. What was Zimmerman's age when he killed Martin? The father no longer has legal authority over the daughter who is 30+ years old or whatever Zimmerman's age is

 

[Gameface]

I don't have much time here, but you're confusing the age of the daughter and legal authority of the father. What was Zimmerman's age when he killed Martin? The father no longer has legal authority over the daughter who is 30+ years old or whatever Zimmerman's age is

And neither does the 9-11 operator...

At no point did Zimmerman forfeit his right to self defense. If attacked he was legally able to defend himself.

 

[Deleted member 365]

And neither does the 9-11 operator...

At no point did Zimmerman forfeit his right to self defense. If attacked he was legally able to defend himself.

Fair enough. I didn't claim that it made any sense. I was just pointing out that your analogy involving a daughter didn't really fly either.

But here's a serious question, why wouldn't you stand down when the operator tells you to? Are you really going to think, "Ha, you operators know nothing. I'm going to continue to do whatever the hell I want?" That's crucial. Why did he continue to pursue Martin?

 

[Stoked]

Fair enough. I didn't claim that it made any sense. I was just pointing out that your analogy involving a daughter didn't really fly either.

But here's a serious question, why wouldn't you stand down when the operator tells you to? Are you really going to think, "Ha, you operators know nothing. I'm going to continue to do whatever the hell I want?" That's crucial. Why did he continue to pursue Martin?

Fair questions. But they do not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he murdered Martin ( murdered not killed).

 

[Gameface]

Fair enough. I didn't claim that it made any sense. I was just pointing out that your analogy involving a daughter didn't really fly either.

But here's a serious question, why wouldn't you stand down when the operator tells you to? Are you really going to think, "Ha, you operators know nothing. I'm going to continue to do whatever the hell I want?" That's crucial. Why did he continue to pursue Martin?

Well, hasn't Zimmerman said that there were a number of robberies and no one had been caught? If he thought Martin was involved and could catch him in the act he would be doing a great service to his community. While we're all busy calling him a mall cop and some vigilante nut case let's not forget that that at least to Zimmerman he was trying to protect his community.

 

[Deleted member 365]

Fair questions. But they do not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he murdered Martin ( murdered not killed).

Fair enough.

But I think it increases dramatically the chances (which, admittedly, isn't saying much. I don't see how this guy doesn't just get manslaughter) that he gets convicted of something greater than manslaughter.

They'll never be able to piece together what exactly happened ala Jodi Arias. The evidence just isn't there. However, I think the trial suddenly becomes a lot more interesting if they show that Zimmerman ignored the operator and went "looking" for trouble. It, at the very least, will cause the jury to think twice before merely drinking the "I'm just a poor innocent neighborhood watch guy who was attacked without warning by some punk kid" Kool-Aid.

Personally, I don't think Zimmerman went with intent to kill. However, I think this guy was a loose cannon (like most mall cops. Even moreso when you analyze Zimmerman's past behavior). He overstepped his boundaries and picked on the wrong guy. Unfortunately, Zimmerman had a gun. In reality, Zimmerman just needed his *** kicked to be reminded of his place. You don't follow people to the point of pissing them off. Right?

 

[Deleted member 365]

Well, hasn't Zimmerman said that there were a number of robberies and no one had been caught? If he thought Martin was involved and could catch him in the act he would be doing a great service to his community. While we're all busy calling him a mall cop and some vigilante nut case let's not forget that that at least to Zimmerman he was trying to protect his community.

The way you go about it is crucial. And again, know your place. I find it interesting that you're one of those who is always concerned over freedom yet seem to support Zimmerman's seeming... PARANOIA and SPYING OF Martin.

I get wanting to have a safe community. Who doesn't?

But at what cost? Are we really going to support mall cops following us around, coming out of their cars, and otherwise harassing us to the point where a physical conflict is all but guaranteed? I mean, what would you do if a mall cop followed and followed you? Wouldn't you be a lil nervous? Or annoyed? Would you eventually call out to the guy? What happens if the guy... To you... Looks suspicious? Or a threat? I just... Put myself in Martin's position and fail to see myself acting much different. Due to Zimmerman's stalking, a physical conflict seemed all but imminent.

And lets suppose Martin was casing houses to rob... What robber doesn't flee from some fat *** mall cop? I would say most of the time an athletic kid like Martin runs and makes it back to his house before Zimmerman puts down his donut to even chase him.

 

[Nate505]

Fair questions. But they do not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he murdered Martin ( murdered not killed).

I'm not sure why they're pursuing a murder charge. Manslaughter seems more appropriate, though I guess there are complication's with Florida's idiotic "Stand Your Ground" law. Ultimately I'm not sure there is even enough proof for a manslaughter conviction. Still, all I do know is that if Zimmerman would have just minded his own ****ing business like a regular person, none of this would be happening, so even if he gets off he deserves every moment of hell he's going through.

 

[Nate505]

Well, hasn't Zimmerman said that there were a number of robberies and no one had been caught? If he thought Martin was involved and could catch him in the act he would be doing a great service to his community. While we're all busy calling him a mall cop and some vigilante nut case let's not forget that that at least to Zimmerman he was trying to protect his community.

There have been burglaries around my area. I don't go following every random teenager I see, especially at 7 PM when I imagine most burglars do their work.

This was part of his phone call to 911:

He described an unknown male "just walking around looking about" in the rain and said, "This guy looks like he is up to no good or he is on drugs or something."

Apparently because he was walking around in the rain. Hey Zimmerman, **** you. Sometimes I enjoy just walking around in the rain. It's relaxing, and it clears the mind. Hell they made a song about it in the 60s for chrissakes, it's hardly some unusual activity. Should I be subjected to 911 calls from asshats like you because I'm out minding my own business and not breaking the law? I'm praying, just praying, that the 911 operator would tell you to go **** yourself and clear the line for people who are calling with real problems. The real tragedy would be if someone having a heart attack had to wait a second longer so this clown could spout his nonsense about people who are not committing crimes.

Again, I've changed my tune on this case in general in terms of his guilt, or the evidence they have, but all the mall cop jokes are appropriate to him. Martin as far as I know was out there minding his own business, and if Zimmerman would have just kept on driving to the store he wouldn't be in this mess and he wouldn't have killed someone.

 

[Deleted member 365]

There have been burglaries around my area. I don't go following every random teenager I see, especially at 7 PM when I imagine most burglars do their work.

This was part of his phone call to 911:

He described an unknown male "just walking around looking about" in the rain and said, "This guy looks like he is up to no good or he is on drugs or something."

Apparently because he was walking around in the rain. Hey Zimmerman, **** you. Sometimes I enjoy just walking around in the rain. It's relaxing, and it clears the mind. Hell they made a song about it in the 60s for chrissakes, it's hardly some unusual activity. Should I be subjected to 911 calls from asshats like you because I'm out minding my own business and not breaking the law? I'm praying, just praying, that the 911 operator would tell you to go **** yourself and clear the line for people who are calling with real problems. The real tragedy would be if someone having a heart attack had to wait a second longer so this clown could spout his nonsense about people who are not committing crimes.

Again, I've changed my tune on this case in general in terms of his guilt, or the evidence they have, but all the mall cop jokes are appropriate to him. Martin as far as I know was out there minding his own business, and if Zimmerman would have just kept on driving to the store he wouldn't be in this mess and he wouldn't have killed someone.

Exactly.

The truth of the matter is, Zimmerman has a long history of this type of nonsense. He clearly was more motivated by this imagined "power" and "authority" than with any altruistic acts.

Like most mall cops, he had self esteem issues.

Sadly, for both parties, he picked on the wrong kid. I just wish that he hadn't died. Zimmerman deserved an *** beating. Trayvon did not deserve to be killed. I think if you put most folks on this board in Trayvon's position and you'd see a physical conflict occur. Wonder if they'd be shot too?

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

The cops had been called numerous times prior to this night's events with no positive results. Zimmerman's experience was that the cops never arrived until after the suspect(s) escaped.

Again, the gun was not discharged until Zimmerman was physically assaulted.

No, I don't believe that is accurate. Is it not more accurate to say, "the gun was not discharged until a physical altercation ensued?' We don't know who assaulted whom (Martin is not around to tell his story) do we? Even if Martin initiated the physical altercation, we don't know whether or to what degree he felt threatened when he did nor that he did so reasonably fearing for his own physical safety.

To my mind, the evidence that Zimmerman sustained head injuries is irrelevant without knowing the context in which this occurred, and thus to me it does not exclude him from primary culpability for the whole damned sorry mess. (I am open to changing my mind with further evidence, NOT further spin, though.)