Good point. My intuition, just from watching the two play, is that Stockton is obviously superior. But like I said, it's something I have to think about if I'm to make a detailed argument. Which isn't something I can/want to do now.
All-Time NBA Draft Round 1: White Chocolate vs. Eminence
- Thread starter Elizah Huge
- Start date
Good point. My intuition, just from watching the two play, is that Stockton is obviously superior. But like I said, it's something I have to think about if I'm to make a detailed argument. Which isn't something I can/want to do now.
spycam1
Well-Known Member
Amar'e's best statistical season came when he played for New York.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
I think they have the same number of titles, tbh.
D
Deleted member 848
Guest
Amar'e's best year 100% was 2005. Superb in the regular season, amazing in the playoffs.
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Deleted member 848
Guest
Name one impressive playoff-series win that Paul has managed in his career.
Stockton swept Kobe and Shaq in the WCF, beat teams with Payton, Barkley, Olajuwon, Duncan/Robinson, etc. A shame he couldn't beat the Bulls, a team that had gone 72-10 the year prior. Will Chris Paul ever make the Finals?
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Jazz also lost quite a few series when they were the overwhelming favorites. With two of the greatest of all time, they only made it to the Finals 2x. They underperformed.
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Deleted member 848
Guest
in other words, you can't name a single impressive playoff series win by Chris Paul. It's okay, neither can I.
spycam1
Well-Known Member
First round against the defending Champion Spurs was impressive, to be fair. He hit the series winning shot in game 7.
spycam1
Well-Known Member
Yeah, you're right. His first season in New York was just a hair under his 05 numbers--enough to prove he wasn't simply a product of the Suns' system or Nash.
I wanted to vote against WC because I feel he unfairly beat my team in the first round last season solely because of the Stockton-Malone bias, but...
If only for one season, Bill Walton is the best player out of all 24 and would be mentioned in the same breath as Wilt, Russell, and Kareem if not for devastating injuries. Dr. J is the best over an entire career, followed by Stockton. All three are on WC's team, so I go with him.
If only for one season, Bill Walton is the best player out of all 24 and would be mentioned in the same breath as Wilt, Russell, and Kareem if not for devastating injuries. Dr. J is the best over an entire career, followed by Stockton. All three are on WC's team, so I go with him.
I like how you conveniently left out the fact that Paul took 5 more shots a game than Stockton did that year.
Take that into account and have them shoot the same amount of shots the stats look like this per 36 mins:
John Stockton - 15.9 PPG, 12.7 APG, 2.8 RPG, 3 SPG, 53.8% from field.
Chris Paul - 14.5 PPG, 10.3 APG, 5.2 RPG, 2.6 SPG, 50.3% from field.
You can do that same thing with Stockton's stats from the next year as well:
John Stockton - 16.6 PPG, 14 APG, 2.5 RPG, 2.6 SPG, 51.4% from field.
Chris Paul 14.5 PPG, 10.3 APG, 5.2 RPG, 2.6 SPG, 50.3% from field.
And we are talking about one statistical season from Paul, I could compare Stockton's stats every year from a 10-year span to Paul's 2008-09 and he would still compare favorably.
The only stat Paul wins is rebounds and that season he had Tyson Chandler as the leading rebounder pulling down 8.5 boards a game not like Stockton who had Malone pulling down 10-12 a game as well as Eaton pulling down 7-9 a game. The two years I compared Stockton to Paul, Malone averaged 10.7 RPG and Eaton 10.3 RPG, the next year Malone pulled down 11.1 a game and Eaton 7.3.
Stockton played in a tougher era and had to go through hand checking. There is no comparison.
Stats aren't everything though, but I'm sure you already know that...
One other point I wanted to make is how incredibly underrated CP3 is. Yeah, I know, it's John Stockton and I'm speaking blasphemy and all. Chris Paul has the fourth highest ws/48 of all time, behind Jordan (whose is dragged down severely by his 3 return from retirement years), Robinson, and Milkin.
CP can hang.
This vote was a ****up.
CP can hang.
This vote was a ****up.
Miggs
Well-Known Member
If you look up his Per 100 Possessions stats which I think is a large part of the basis for your statement, this doesn't ring true.
spycam1
Well-Known Member
Huh. Interesting.
Thee Jazz Fan
Well-Known Member
I will point out that Paul comes out not as well in the playoffs. Where as Stockton probably has a ring or two if not for Jordan and the Bulls
I think that that's a bit overblown, there was the 09 season where they got blasted by Denver and his first season in LA, other than that he's done just fine in the playoffs. Even including those seasons his WS/48 for the playoffs is 0.200, Stockton comes in at 0.160.
Judging a player (especially a point guard) off his ability to win titles is misguided. In general I think it's extremely difficult for smaller point guards to carry their teams to post season success. In the modernish era of basketball the only pgs to successfully lead his team to a title are Magic, Thomas, and Curry. Each great players, but a key factor for each is that they also played on loaded teams. This years Warriors, Showtime, and the Bad Boys, are all better than anything either Stockton or Paul have ever played with.
Thee Jazz Fan
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry, but saying Paul is better is asinine
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Good thing nobody (barring maybe Franklin) has said that right? What I've said is that Paul/Stockton are similar in skill level and game impact and would mostly balance one another out in a hypothetical meeting between the two. Neither is a good enough defender to shut the other down, while both are good enough to stop the other from taking over the game.
Personally, gun to my head, for one series I'm picking Stockton, but it'd be a tough decision. And honestly I'd expect most non Jazz fans to go the other way.