I wonder if people realize...

[Maneesh]

What about restaurants that don't use waiters? For example, today for lunch we went to a pizza place that had a country where you ordered the pizza, they have you a placard with a number, then brought the pizza out when it was done. I pretty much never tip at places like that...is that wrong?

I don't do it or for carry out. I am so genorous at a sit down, but refuse carry out and I know there is some debate on this, but for this i don't care. If the place like you say has room attendant that cleans up after me or offers refil, like pei Wei, I just leave few bucks.

 

[LogGrad98]

First of all, we have literally every other industrialized country to look at. I've never heard of a restaurant or server shortage due to the high costs of dining in any of these countries.

Secondly, the negative effects on the economy of wage increases in the food industry are vastly overblown. I believe they could pay McDonald's workers $15 per hr and only increase the cost of a Big Mac $0.25. I highly doubt people will refuse to eat Big Macs because it costs a whole quarter more.

At this point it's more about maintaining a certain image or perception of superiority than anything based on economics.

You legitimately think a company can increase their single highest cost by >25% and have about a 2% increase in prices? Wow the depth of your ignorance of economics and business is unlimited.

Cuz no other country has figured out how to pay their servers living wages and still maintain profitable restaurants.

Japan, Brazil, Austrialia, and most of Europe have no restaurants because they require businesses to actually pay their servers and not rely on the good will of customers...

Use some ****ing common sense

Americans for whatever reason feel like they need to reinvent the wheel. As if every major issue has only reared their ugly heada in the United States now while other countries still have yet to deal with them.

In reality, most of the other industrialized countries look at us as Neanderthals.

Remember Stockton 2 Malone? He was a mod on the original board before it crashed. I remember talking to him about health care and min wage. Australia modernized and resolved these issues decades ago. Hilarious because, when anyone suggests we adopt a system for any major issue that is being worked successfully in another similar country, the talking heads here scream apocalypse.

Again, if tips are what's preventing restaurant owners from jacking up prices or risk downsizing significantly, then why are so many other countries still surviving without the tipping system?

Again, I think this is more about perpetuating an asinine American system than actual analysis in economics.

Now you are conflating price with profit. Do you even know what you're arguing about?

Are you going to attempt to refute anything said in the last few posts by Nate and I or are you just going to act smart and troll?

So there is the train of our discussion, since you cannot keep it straight. You claimed that a company could increase their own costs of doing business by a huge amount with only a small increase in price to the consumer. That is patently false. Then you try to say that other countries have done it and maintain profitable restaurants. You do know that price to the consumer and profit for the company are 2 vastly different things, right? Also, I HAVE ALREADY AGREED WITH YOU THAT WE SHOULD CHANGE THE CURRENT SYSTEM BECAUSE I LIVE IN A COUNTRY THAT DOESN'T HAVE THAT SYSTEM AND I THINK IT IS BETTER.

So in OUR DISCUSSION if anyone has created a straw man IT IS YOU.

So what exactly should I refute about what you and Nate have said? I haven't commented on Nate's posts at all.

Dude I know your brain is wired weird but not everyone is out to get you, and you just proved my earlier jab at you correct. You politicize EVERYTHING you comment on.

 

[LogGrad98]

Is the % of people who don't tip that large (and are they that poor) where if costs were increased 20% they won't go out to eat anymore?

For a place like Applebee's, where the average bill for 4 is, eh, let's say $60, that would bring the cost to $72 for the meal. Yet most people who go out and tip just expect to pay $72 anyway because that's the cost plus a 20% tip. I know when I go out to eat I have to do that stupid mental gymnastics thing (though I'm an Accounting major, so adding 20% isn't that difficult....heck it's not even difficult as just someone who has any competence in math pas the middle school level) where I'm factoring in the tip as part of the total bill.

Again, why doesn't this line of thinking apply to any other business? What about the poor person who can't get their car fixed? Why aren't other people subsidizing their bills?

In Utah I always used the sales tax to compute the tip. Double the tax + a couple bucks gets you to 18-20% pretty much every time. I always found that easier than figuring 20% of the bill.

 

[LogGrad98]

It's not a scare tactic. I have no vested interest. I am not a restaurant owner, I do not work for a restaurant, I have already said that I tip more than 20%. It is honestly what I think would happen. As much as waiters may hate serving broke people they need their business for the sake of their job.

The idea that waiters could all be payed 10-20$ an hour without drastically reducing the number of waiters is wrong. Maybe it would be better to have fewer waiters that made more money. Maybe it would be better to have fewer restaurants. That is what would happen and pretending that it wouldn't is in my view foolish.

I think that is a possibility, but what I think would happen is you would see decrease in the mom and pop shops that might need to hire a few people beyond family members. In Germany there are a lot of restaurants but they really are either tiny little 3 table family run joints (a TON of those) or big chain or huge local or regional places with a few locations. Not much in between. The restaurant I recommended, the Timbermine, would have hard time maintaining if they changed the current system overnight. They would have to raise their prices dramatically to keep from going under, but since they are not a chain they don't have the economies of scale to absorb that kind of cost hit immediately.

I think some places would weather the storm but I agree it is ludicrous to think we could spontaneously increase the cost of a certain type of business and not see some players in that market drop out completely, and also see the bigger players change strategy that would impact how many people they employ.

 

[Jaymz]

After working about 6 years as a waiter in Saint George, about 5 different restaurants I would have to conclude it is a business for young college kids to thrive in. Lots of women, lots of drugs, and money every day. I found acquiring tips every day made it hard for me to budget... anything really. I would get a lot of money before Christmas until about march. Then the drought begins.
Right to work state translates into a high turnover rate of employees at restaurants. I never found proper management even at the most renown of places.

As for the tip issue, honestly the 2.13/hr is a joke. I understand servers have potential to make a lot more with tips but over the whole year it doesn't average out to be what one would expect. I would say give them a decent wage, at least minimum. It doesn't have to be 15/hr + tips, but something at least to counter the taxes.

I found myself overworking and over stressed in this field of work. It starts with the Host/Hostess who seats you, if they seat you in a section with an overwhelmed server, your service is going to hurt. In turn thinking the server is incompetent his wage (tip) is decreased. It then follows up to the bartender, who if they're too overwhelmed they can't make the drinks in a timely manner and then again the Server suffers.
Guess what's after that? Yep the cooks! Now I believe the BoH (Back of House) deserves a lot more credit then they get, because they're back there working their asses off during the rushes non-stop getting yelled at by customers, servers, and management.
God forbid they make a mistake, they're everyone's scapegoat. If they food takes too long, the server suffers some more.

Then you have to depend on the other servers to help run your food while it's still fresh and hot. If they're are any mistakes the dish gets pushed to the front of the line so the person can enjoy their meal with their company. It can potentially make everything chaotic as hell.

Don't forget most restaurants I worked at too servers have to remember salads/soups included with meals, custom drink orders, allergies to all keep in mind, and balancing 3-5 tables which all have 2-8 guests.
Being a server is very demanding and stressful. Treat them kindly.

 

[bigb]

So what's the standard for buffets. With my brood of kids, we do manage to get to Golden Corral or Pizza Pie Café every once in a while. Is there a standard for places like that? There are no servers bringing food, basically just bussers clearing used plates.

 

[bigb]

In Utah I always used the sales tax to compute the tip. Double the tax + a couple bucks gets you to 18-20% pretty much every time. I always found that easier than figuring 20% of the bill.

20% is easy. Move the decimal one place left and double it.

 

[fishonjazz]

20% is easy. Move the decimal one place left and double it.

Basically how I do it.
I just figure out 10% and double it

 

[Dr. Jones]

So what's the standard for buffets. With my brood of kids, we do manage to get to Golden Corral or Pizza Pie Café every once in a while. Is there a standard for places like that? There are no servers bringing food, basically just bussers clearing used plates.

A decent rule of thumb, imo, is $1.50/person.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I consider myself to be a very good tipper. I will only tip 15% if I get bad service, but that is pretty rare. My charming personality tends to bring the best out in people.
It's also a business decision for me. I have lots of lunch and dinner business meals and it makes things much smoother if I get the royal treatment while getting the **** biz done.

I'm probably closer to 35% for good personable service.

 

[Ron Mexico]

I consider myself to be a very good tipper. I will only tip 15% if I get bad service, but that is pretty rare. My charming personality tends to bring the best out in people.
It's also a business decision for me. I have lots of lunch and dinner business meals and it makes things much smoother if I get the royal treatment while getting the **** biz done.

I'm probably closer to 35% for good personable service.

Good service to me is not personable. I dont really want to make small talk with the server or have them try to be my friend. I hated that serving trend a few years ago where the waiter would sit down at your table and pretend to be one of you for a bit. I am out to eat with someone who I want to talk to. I dislike waiters who try to be friends with me. Just be prompt, polite and keep my drink full, that is good service to me.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Good service to me is not personable. I dont really want to make small talk with the server or have them try to be my friend. I hated that serving trend a few years ago where the waiter would sit down at your table and pretend to be one of you for a bit. I am out to eat with someone who I want to talk to. I dislike waiters who try to be friends with me. Just be prompt, polite and keep my drink full, that is good service to me.

I agree when it's seriously just a meal. Most of mine are not. Hanging out, chatting, goofing off... long after the food is gone.

 

[gandalfe]

I just figure out 10% and double it

I double it and THEN do 10%.

Sounds like we've got us the beginnings of a holy war, here...

 

[fishonjazz]

I double it and THEN do 10%.

Sounds like we've got us the beginnings of a holy war, here...

Lol

 

[franklin]

So what's the standard for buffets. With my brood of kids, we do manage to get to Golden Corral or Pizza Pie Café every once in a while. Is there a standard for places like that? There are no servers bringing food, basically just bussers clearing used plates.

Service at Golden Corral? They're all bussers. Tip accordingly.

 

[Gameface]

I agree when it's seriously just a meal. Most of mine are not. Hanging out, chatting, goofing off... long after the food is gone.

Table time is a big deal to the severs. If you are hanging out then larger than average tips are certainly in order.

I have no doubt you are a welcome sight to anyone who has served you in the past.

 

[RandyForRubio]

Table time is a big deal to the severs. If you are hanging out then larger than average tips are certainly in order.

I have no doubt you are a welcome sight to anyone who has served you in the past.

Also a short sight.

 

[Dr. Jones]

GF >>>>>>> Howard.

As if it needed to be said.

 

[Beer]

I really doubt the servers at a place like Ruths Chris are what any of us would consider rich, but yeah, I'm sure they make more than a server at Denny's.

One thing is that the servers at a place like Ruths Chris typically have fewer tables, maybe only 2-3 at a time. And the table turnover is much slower.

My wife did some high end serving back in the day. Sundance Tree Room for 1 and she was never "rich" but she did make good money. Probably close to 3K a month working 3 nights a week. If you really want to commit to serving 8 hours a day, 5 days a week you can make an ok living. Its just you'll kill your self before you ever get to see any of that money.

 

[Beer]

Rules, tips and facts for eating in a restaurant

1. Eat your food and get the **** out. If you are sitting around well after your meal you had better tip double or triple because if you're sitting there your server is existing not making any money on the next table. Don't be a dick.

2. If its really busy understand that your server might not be able to tickle your taint immediately. Have some patience for gods sake. If its slow, expect your beverage to be full and your plates to be cleared quickly.

3. If you make a ton of changes to your order and make the meal on the menu into something completely different expect it to get screwed up. The person cooking your food is going to be a moron. Make his life as easy as possible

4. If you're server is great tip them well and they'll take care of you in return. Free drinks and desserts etc ....

5. Women suck at tipping, large families ALMOST always suck at tipping, mormons generally suck at tipping, old people suck at tipping. If you fit in any of these demos expect to get **** service and blame your group as a whole and not the server.

I've got more. Maybe someday I'll enlighten you.