I wonder if people realize...

[The Thriller]

So the people who can't afford 20% should go out and eat anyway and just not pay part (not just "part", but a substantial percentage) of the labor costs? Because when you don't tip that's what you're basically doing.

I was a buser in a restaurant. I tip when I go out to eat. My objection is not that I want to get out of tipping, it's more that I'm unsure why the food service industry is pretty much the only industry where the customer is expected to pay the labor costs in addition to their bill. Why isn't it rolled into the cost of the product like just about anything else in life? Would anyone else love it if they went to the grocery store and were expected to pay 10-20% on top of their grocery bill to the checkout clerk who scanned all your groceries? Even if the grocery bill were reduced 10-20% most people would find that irritating.

In my experience, the people who "cannot afford" to tip are the ones that eat out the most.

Dead serious.

There was this real Redneck family from Payson that would come into Provo and eat out nearly every week. There were 4 adults and 5 kids. Their bill would be over $100 each time. Yet each time they'd tip $1-2 or nothing at all. We servers would just cringe when they'd come in. Sometimes we experienced people could dish them off to a noob who didn't know the family.

Sorry, but we've got to make money!

Anyways, so they had enough money to drive 30 mins from payson. Had enough money for food and drinks. Yet didn't have enough money for tips?

On the regular I'd see BYU students roll in nearly every week. Sorry Colton, they were far worse than college students from other universities. The same young families, eat us all out of food, stay forever (preventing us from flipping tables), not order any booze, and screw us over.

Many Utah families, sadly, will "eat out" paying like they would at McDonald's or Taco Bell. Yet the food they receive is Olive Garden, macaroni grill, Applebee's, Tucanos, worthy.

The biggest challenge IMO was the weekend. Since restaurants are really cheap, they'll hire and train as few servers as possible. So on the weekend, it's all hands on deck working what are called "doubles." Which essentially means you work from open until close with no break in between. So if your restaurant doesn't open until 11 (and you have to be there 1 hr early to set up) and it doesn't close until 11 at night (and you must stay 1 hr to clean up) well do the math...

To me, that's what made restaurant life thee worst. You'd often times work 10+ hrs per day, no break, and still only avg perhaps $7-10 per hr. Even worse in the summer. If it hadn't sucked so bad I probably would be in law school right now. But since I just wanted to be done I hurried and finished my education in education and am working for $30k in Utah. Hmmmm...

So keep that in mind next time you show up late Saturday night. Your server, in all likelihood, has been working since at least noon with little to no break.

 

[The Thriller]

The reason it shouldn't is because customers will become more resistant to tip if the percentage gets too high. Imagine if the custom gets to be 50%, and that's "needed" due to cost of living expenses. All of a sudden one has to pay $30 out of pocket for a $20 plate, and psychologically I don't think many people are willing to do it.

Of course I'd prefer to see servers make $10-20 an hour (in 2015 dollars) and just get a buck or two there if the table feels the service was worth it.

I think the custom needs to increase And increase until Americans wake up to the fact that they're subsidizing restaurant owners who refuse to pay their servers.

The problem lies in the American system for compensation. In all the foreign countries I know of, Japan, Switzerland, Finland, and Brazil (where I served my mission) tipping was either non-existent or only used to show great appreciation for a job well done. It's gravy on the mashed potatoes.

Yet here? It's the primary mode of compensation. It's the mashed potatoes.

 

[The Thriller]

Btw, seriously, this isn't a political rant, but why do we compensate those in the food industry so much different than other countries?

 

[Hotdog]

I've always been a gold tipper. Tip more than I should probably. I hate bad tippers.

As far as steaks go. They seem to be hit and miss for me, no matter who is cooking them. I have bad steaks at good restaurants and greats steaks homemade. I'm not sure what the deal is. I've always chalked it up to all steaks aren't created equal. As if some cows just taste better. And how hungry I am probably effects the taste as well.

 

[Nate505]

I think the custom needs to increase And increase until Americans wake up to the fact that they're subsidizing restaurant owners who refuse to pay their servers.

The problem lies in the American system for compensation. In all the foreign countries I know of, Japan, Switzerland, Finland, and Brazil (where I served my mission) tipping was either non-existent or only used to show great appreciation for a job well done. It's gravy on the mashed potatoes.

Yet here? It's the primary mode of compensation. It's the mashed potatoes.

I think we're on the same page here.

 

[Nate505]

Btw, seriously, this isn't a political rant, but why do we compensate those in the food industry so much different than other countries?

Heck, even different industries.

If you went to a mechanic and asked for a brake job, they'll most likely quote you a full price. It's possible on the invoice they'll break down what the labor costs, the parts, the disposal fees (if any), and the taxes, but the price quoted typically is the price you'll pay.

Let's say the average full cost brake job was $200. Would anyone really prefer a system where a brake job was $150, but the custom is to tip your mechanic 25%? For most people at the least it would be a slightly irritating math step. I doubt the mechanic would care for it either, knowing someone could just walk out with a brake job for $150 and screw him out of his $50 in labor. I realize this isn't a perfect analogy because in this case the mechanic is like all the restaurant jobs rolled into one (the cook, the waiter, the buser, and the dishwasher), but the basic concept is the same. I doubt the mechanic would like it if even $10 of that $50 labor costs were negotiable by the customer.

 

[The Thriller]

I think we're on the same page here.

Yeah had to dread your post and I'm pretty sure we are. It's a lil late so I'm struggling mate!

 

[LogGrad98]

I think the custom needs to increase And increase until Americans wake up to the fact that they're subsidizing restaurant owners who refuse to pay their servers.

The problem lies in the American system for compensation. In all the foreign countries I know of, Japan, Switzerland, Finland, and Brazil (where I served my mission) tipping was either non-existent or only used to show great appreciation for a job well done. It's gravy on the mashed potatoes.

Yet here? It's the primary mode of compensation. It's the mashed potatoes.

The flaw in this thinking is the implication that there would be a way to NOT subsidize restaurant owners paying their employees. If tipping is the convention, you subsidize it through tips. If they pay a living wage (like here in Germany) you subsidize it through higher costs. For example here you will never find all you can drink sodas. You want a coke? You can get 0.4 liters for 3.50 euros. Want another? It is another 3.50. People learn to eat all their food and drink only at the end of the meal. That 3.50 per coke, which actually costs the restaurant pennies, is subsidizing the fact that the wait staff make real wages.

But I know you are happiest when you can rail against perceived evil right wing stuff, so rail away.

Damn capitalists!! **** the free market!! Money-grubbing employers!! How dare you provide us generally with the highest standard of living and lowest level of poverty our species has ever seen!! Motherfudpucking fargin bastage iceholes!!!

 

[Maneesh]

What is the lowest someone tips? Even for terrible service I can't give less than15. I just can't. I can't believe someone give 1,2 percent. Some humans are just ****ty ones.

 

[The Thriller]

The flaw in this thinking is the implication that there would be a way to NOT subsidize restaurant owners paying their employees. If tipping is the convention, you subsidize it through tips. If they pay a living wage (like here in Germany) you subsidize it through higher costs. For example here you will never find all you can drink sodas. You want a coke? You can get 0.4 liters for 3.50 euros. Want another? It is another 3.50. People learn to eat all their food and drink only at the end of the meal. That 3.50 per coke, which actually costs the restaurant pennies, is subsidizing the fact that the wait staff make real wages.

But I know you are happiest when you can rail against perceived evil right wing stuff, so rail away.

Damn capitalists!! **** the free market!! Money-grubbing employers!! How dare you provide us generally with the highest standard of living and lowest level of poverty our species has ever seen!! Motherfudpucking fargin bastage iceholes!!!

U mad bro?

I made no mention of right wing stuff.

And is Germany not practicing capitalism anymore? Having to pay a living wage and throwing the costs onto customers still seems like capitalism to me. The difference is, restaurants aren't being subsidized by customers. Customers can tip for a job well done rather than to do the job the restaurant should be doing (compensating their employees).

And btw, if that means some classes cannot afford to eat out, or can only eat out on special occasions that's awesome. Those classes weren't tipping us anyway.

 

[The Thriller]

What is the lowest someone tips? Even for terrible service I can't give less than15. I just can't. I can't believe someone give 1,2 percent. Some humans are just ****ty ones.

I worked in 2 different restaurants for 4 years total.

I was a leader and trainer.

In SLC I would average about 15-18 percent in tips. Plus their bills were generally higher because of drinks.
In Utah County I would average about 10-15 percent in tips. And their bills were much smaller due to coupons and lack of drinks.

And I was one of the servers who received the most tips.

Honestly, I think it goes back to:

1. People not understanding that we make $2.13 per hr.

2. Because restaurant owners are shirking their responsibility onto the customer, it has allowed loser people to take advantage of the situation and eat out. If you cannot pay the tip either with 18-20 percent tipping or cannot pay the server via the restaurant paying a living wage through higher costs, then you have no business eating out. It's that simple.

Eating out every other night seems to be the new American entitlement. Go home and learn how to cook! Or go to someplace in your price range, like McDonald's dollar menu.

 

[LogGrad98]

I think the custom needs to increase And increase until Americans wake up to the fact that they're subsidizing restaurant owners who refuse to pay their servers.

The problem lies in the American system for compensation. In all the foreign countries I know of, Japan, Switzerland, Finland, and Brazil (where I served my mission) tipping was either non-existent or only used to show great appreciation for a job well done. It's gravy on the mashed potatoes.

Yet here? It's the primary mode of compensation. It's the mashed potatoes.

U mad bro?

I made no mention of right wing stuff.

And is Germany not practicing capitalism anymore? Having to pay a living wage and throwing the costs onto customers still seems like capitalism to me. The difference is, restaurants aren't being subsidized by customers. Customers can tip for a job well done rather than to do the job the restaurant should be doing (compensating their employees).

And btw, if that means some classes cannot afford to eat out, or can only eat out on special occasions that's awesome. Those classes weren't tipping us anyway.

The bolded is a fairly political statement. I was stressing the fact that either you subsidize through tips or higher costs. Either way the consumer bears the cost. And market forces, augmented by legislation, drive what people get paid. If an employer can find people to hire that will accept $2.13 per hour, and plenty of them, and is not required to pay more than that, then what is the incentive for the employer to pay more?

 

[LogGrad98]

What is the lowest someone tips? Even for terrible service I can't give less than15. I just can't. I can't believe someone give 1,2 percent. Some humans are just ****ty ones.

I will tip as little as zero. It depends on lots of things. Primarily simply the attitude of the server. If they have a decent attitude, and aren't surly and rude or extremely negligent I tip generally in the 20% range. But that can slide pretty quickly if they are bringing an attitude, whether a bad attitude or an I don't care attitude. There is a restaurant in Fernley NV I will never visit again because of the lackadaisical attitude of their servers.

 

[♪alt13]

The reason it shouldn't is because customers will become more resistant to tip if the percentage gets too high. Imagine if the custom gets to be 50%, and that's "needed" due to cost of living expenses. All of a sudden one has to pay $30 out of pocket for a $20 plate, and psychologically I don't think many people are willing to do it.

Of course I'd prefer to see servers make $10-20 an hour (in 2015 dollars) and just get a buck or two there if the table feels the service was worth it.

In my experience, the people who "cannot afford" to tip are the ones that eat out the most.

Dead serious.

There was this real Redneck family from Payson that would come into Provo and eat out nearly every week. There were 4 adults and 5 kids. Their bill would be over $100 each time. Yet each time they'd tip $1-2 or nothing at all. We servers would just cringe when they'd come in. Sometimes we experienced people could dish them off to a noob who didn't know the family.

Sorry, but we've got to make money!

Anyways, so they had enough money to drive 30 mins from payson. Had enough money for food and drinks. Yet didn't have enough money for tips?

On the regular I'd see BYU students roll in nearly every week. Sorry Colton, they were far worse than college students from other universities. The same young families, eat us all out of food, stay forever (preventing us from flipping tables), not order any booze, and screw us over.

Many Utah families, sadly, will "eat out" paying like they would at McDonald's or Taco Bell. Yet the food they receive is Olive Garden, macaroni grill, Applebee's, Tucanos, worthy.

The biggest challenge IMO was the weekend. Since restaurants are really cheap, they'll hire and train as few servers as possible. So on the weekend, it's all hands on deck working what are called "doubles." Which essentially means you work from open until close with no break in between. So if your restaurant doesn't open until 11 (and you have to be there 1 hr early to set up) and it doesn't close until 11 at night (and you must stay 1 hr to clean up) well do the math...

To me, that's what made restaurant life thee worst. You'd often times work 10+ hrs per day, no break, and still only avg perhaps $7-10 per hr. Even worse in the summer. If it hadn't sucked so bad I probably would be in law school right now. But since I just wanted to be done I hurried and finished my education in education and am working for $30k in Utah. Hmmmm...

So keep that in mind next time you show up late Saturday night. Your server, in all likelihood, has been working since at least noon with little to no break.

It sounds great until you realize that less people going out to eat means fewer waiters and fewer restaurants. It might not be that big of a deal somewhere else but here where so many people have more children than they can afford this would mean people lose their jobs.

Tipping well subsidizes the meal of someone that otherwise could not afford it. That person that tips poorly helps keep the margins in the black. Forget about the 20% and put yourself in the waiters shoes. If you can afford to leave a big tip do it.

 

[The Thriller]

The bolded is a fairly political statement. I was stressing the fact that either you subsidize through tips or higher costs. Either way the consumer bears the cost. And market forces, augmented by legislation, drive what people get paid. If an employer can find people to hire that will accept $2.13 per hour, and plenty of them, and is not required to pay more than that, then what is the incentive for the employer to pay more?

You're the one that believed that I was attacking "evil right wing stuff" when Iade no mention of that. let me be clear, I don't see democrats proposing to do away with our tip system. So I think we can all assume that both major parties are fine with maintaining the status quo.

Which is paying servers $2.13 per hr and making your tip become the primary salary of the server. Is that fine with you?

 

[The Thriller]

It sounds great until you realize that less people going out to eat means fewer waiters and fewer restaurants. It might not be that big of a deal somewhere else but here where so many people have more children than they can afford this would mean people lose their jobs.

Tipping well subsidizes the meal of someone that otherwise could not afford it. That person that tips poorly helps keep the margins in the black. Forget about the 20% and put yourself in the waiters shoes. If you can afford to leave a big tip do it.

Scare tactics to maintain poor pay and the continued "passing the responsibility of compensating employees" from employer to customer never has and never will work for me.

 

[LogGrad98]

You're the one that believed that I was attacking "evil right wing stuff" when Iade no mention of that. let me be clear, I don't see democrats proposing to do away with our tip system. So I think we can all assume that both major parties are fine with maintaining the status quo.

Which is paying servers $2.13 per hr and making your tip become the primary salary of the server. Is that fine with you?

I have already stated I would prefer something closer to what they have here in Germany. Servers are paid a real wage, and tips are truly only for exceptional service. I would prefer that. I was commenting on your implication that evil employers were gouging workers and we were unwittingly allowing it through support of the tipping system in place in the US now.

 

[The Thriller]

I have already stated I would prefer something closer to what they have here in Germany. Servers are paid a real wage, and tips are truly only for exceptional service. I would prefer that. I was commenting on your implication that evil employers were gouging workers and we were unwittingly allowing it through support of the tipping system in place in the US now.

I never said evil. I never called them right wing. Nor did I make it political.

You did.

But you're right, they'll take advantage and gouge workers as much as they can. If they can pass the responsibility of paying their workers onto customers via tips rather than pay them living wages, give them breaks, honor their schedule requests, etc they will. Until you work in this industry as I did, I think it's safe to say that I know a hell of a lot more about this than you do.

 

[The Thriller]

I remember once we had a huge party show up. 200 people ordered food, drinks, and deserts. A bill over $7,000. They left no tip (probably without noticing). The restaurant owner? Shrugged his shoulders and said, "darn." To him it didn't matter. His restaurant got the money they wanted. To hell with the employees.

The 12 employees who worked 3 hrs? Left pissed making min wage and dreaming that their college degrees couldn't come fast enough.

Sadly, 2 of those 12 are still there even with their college degrees! Ouch!

 

[Maneesh]

I will tip as little as zero. It depends on lots of things. Primarily simply the attitude of the server. If they have a decent attitude, and aren't surly and rude or extremely negligent I tip generally in the 20% range. But that can slide pretty quickly if they are bringing an attitude, whether a bad attitude or an I don't care attitude. There is a restaurant in Fernley NV I will never visit again because of the lackadaisical attitude of their servers.

Yeah you know, if the have the attitude I can't take it. I would probably be tehe same for rude behavior and not want to give the tip. That is a good reason not to do it. I hope I don't see one of these people. I think it should be like Europe. But when i go there sometimes I forget that they don't expect so i still do it. They might think I'm rude or they might like me even more?