Planned Parenthood Selling Baby Organs

[LogGrad98]

Here are some facts regarding abortion, from a pro-life group, just so nobody questions the data as being biased in favor of a woman's right to choose to terminate a pregnancy

https://prolifeaction.org/faq/abortion.php#stages

Almost 83% of all abortions are for women over age 20

Over 60% of all abortions are performed within the first 9 weeks, and about 88% are performed within the first 12 weeks. Abortions after 20 weeks are only 1.5% of the total.

And while it doesn't say so in the link, almost all of the late term abortions are for matters of maternal health for issues that did not present themselves earlier in the pregnancy. These tend to be "wanted" pregnancies, which makes the situation all the more heartbreaking.


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One question I have for those who feel abortion should be illegal (except in limited, specific circumstances) at all stages of pregnancy is that if a woman is 6-9 weeks pregnant, or even 12 - 14 weeks pregnant, who is going to know that other than the woman herself and her doctor? Unless she tells people, which if it is an unexpected and unwanted pregnancy, she is not likely to do - - how is anyone going to know? So if a doctor performs a "D & C" because a woman has irregular bleeding, who's going to know?

And as far as rape goes, how and by whom is it determined that a woman was raped? Does a police report have to be filed? Do you have any idea how many woman are in abusive relationships, and might be pregnant as a result of a sexual encounter that was not fully consensual. Some of these were issues I learned about during the time I volunteered at Planned Parenthood - - and they don't lend themselves to easy, cookie-cutter answers.

These questions also raise the issue of causing major privacy violations. I realize that for those of you who are unquestionably opposed to choice, these questions don't matter. But unless you want a system that places draconian obstacles upon women for no reason other than the fact that they are women, these are questions that should be considered.

Is it fully consensual when my wife is strung out on Ambien? Uh, I mean someone elses wife. No wait, that's not what I mean. I mean some random girl. Wait.


Oh nevermind.

 

[LogGrad98]

I realize that for those of you who are unquestionably opposed to choice, these questions don't matter as much as the fact that we are discussing killing babies, essentially. But unless you want a system that places draconian obstacles upon women for no reason other than the fact that the life inside them should have rights too and not have those rights summarily ignored in order to terminate the life because it isn't convenient, these are questions that should be considered.

I think I fixed this to better represent the other side. It is often portrayed that the anti-abortion crowd is ANTI-WOMAN and want nothing more than total subjugation of women and all of their rights, because evil!! When really, for a vast majority of them imo, it is as I fixed the sentences above (intended hyperbole). Why is this the only time it is socially acceptable to simply turn our heads and avert our eyes as the most innocent of lives are taken, often for no other reason than inconvenience?

I think, and I know this to be true for most people I know who truly oppose abortion and are not just regurgitating their religious leaders' opinions, that this is how this is viewed by most people who oppose abortion.

 

[moevillini]

I think I fixed this to better represent the other side. It is often portrayed that the anti-abortion crowd is ANTI-WOMAN and want nothing more than total subjugation of women and all of their rights, because evil!! When really, for a vast majority of them imo, it is as I fixed the sentences above (intended hyperbole). Why is this the only time it is socially acceptable to simply turn our heads and avert our eyes as the most innocent of lives are taken, often for no other reason than inconvenience?

I think, and I know this to be true for most people I know who truly oppose abortion and are not just regurgitating their religious leaders' opinions, that this is how this is viewed by most people who oppose abortion.

well now Log, I guess that IS the difference. Those who favor choice do not consider a 8-10 week old EMBRYO to be a baby. Yes, it has potential to develop into a human baby, but at that point in its development, it is not seen to be a baby. As I mentioned in an earlier post, it may be human life, but it is not a living human. Some of you are not able to accept that distinction, but I think it is probably the most important distinction that separates those who favor choice from those who don't.

Well, that and the whole "woman's right to privacy" issue that some people seem to feel is too much of a conundrum to mean anything.

...Why is this the only time it is socially acceptable to simply turn our heads and avert our eyes as the most innocent of lives are taken, often for no other reason than inconvenience?

sorry, but this is probably one of the most insulting comments that can be made... and it does reek of "anti-woman" sentiment even though you may claim it's not... it completely downplays the difficulty and emotional toll of the situation for the women (and often the men as well) who are involved

 

[Gameface]

A baby is not an inconvenience.

Pregnancy, childbirth, care for a newborn, an infant, a toddler, a child, an adolescent and a young adult over a 19+ year period (since we're counting the 9month pregnancy in there) is not something I would classify so casually as an inconvenience. It is something that can absolutely demolish whatever path in life you are on and send you in a completely different direction.

When I was 13 a good friend of mine got his girlfriend pregnant. He was a troublemaking thug, she was an a honor student. So, at the time, she was on track for going to college, getting a high paying job, etc. Ultimately someone who, when she decided to later in life, would make a great mother and provide a great environment for her children. But being pregnant at thirteen and being tied to her first serious boyfriend for the rest of her life seemed likely to change that trajectory completely. She ended up having a miscarriage pretty early in the pregnancy. The young lovers were already on the rocks and the miscarriage allowed them to go their separate ways.

 

[LogGrad98]

well now Log, I guess that IS the difference. Those who favor choice do not consider a 8-10 week old EMBRYO to be a baby. Yes, it has potential to develop into a human baby, but at that point in its development, it is not seen to be a baby. As I mentioned in an earlier post, it may be human life, but it is not a living human. Some of you are not able to accept that distinction, but I think it is probably the most important distinction that separates those who favor choice from those who don't.

Well, that and the whole "woman's right to privacy" issue that some people seem to feel is too much of a conundrum to mean anything.



sorry, but this is probably one of the most insulting comments that can be made... and it does reek of "anti-woman" sentiment even though you may claim it's not... it completely downplays the difficulty and emotional toll of the situation for the women (and often the men as well) who are involved

The problem with the distinction you raise is that it is completely arbitrary. There is nothing scientific proving that it is, and for that matter isn't, a life. Pro-choice want to think it isn't life so they can tell themselves they aren't killing a baby. Pro-lifers take the more convervative approach and say if it will turn into a baby it is life at any stage. My thoughts are simple. If you leave it alone will it continue to develop into life, without some outside intervention? If the answer is yes then it is a life. The difference between an embryo and a baby is about 7 months. Time. That is it. It is a race to take it out before you cannot safely argue it isn't a life any further. We could apply this in lots of things. If the cop doesn't catch me then I wasn't speeding. So if I can elude him long enough to get away, then as soon as I get away I am now innocent of anything. But if he catches me soon enough I am guilty. So the lesson is, always run from the police. Yes I know they are different issues, but is the argument itself really that different?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/abortion/child/alive_1.shtml

 

[LogGrad98]

A baby is not an inconvenience.

Pregnancy, childbirth, care for a newborn, an infant, a toddler, a child, an adolescent and a young adult over a 19+ year period (since we're counting the 9month pregnancy in there) is not something I would classify so casually as an inconvenience. It is something that can absolutely demolish whatever path in life you are on and send you in a completely different direction.

When I was 13 a good friend of mine got his girlfriend pregnant. He was a troublemaking thug, she was an a honor student. So, at the time, she was on track for going to college, getting a high paying job, etc. Ultimately someone who, when she decided to later in life, would make a great mother and provide a great environment for her children. But being pregnant at thirteen and being tied to her first serious boyfriend for the rest of her life seemed likely to change that trajectory completely. She ended up having a miscarriage pretty early in the pregnancy. The young lovers were already on the rocks and the miscarriage allowed them to go their separate ways.

What about adoption? Everyone always spouts the horror stories of people's lives destroyed when an abortion could have fixed everything, yet adoption is never mentioned as a viable option. This is one thing I personally experienced as a strike againts PP. A friend of mine found herself pregnant while we were going to college. I suggested she go to planned parenthood. She told them she could carry the baby, but just didn't want to raise it. They kind of kept pushing on her about the disruption to her life and how hard it would be to carry the baby to term. She told them she would prefer but didn't know what her options were. They told her she can either keep the baby or have an abortion, She brought up adoption and they brushed it off as if it were not even worth considering.

So instead she went to LDS social services who helped arrange not just the adoption but also medical care and counseling for the young mother as she went though this difficult process. Night and day.

So, why not put the kid up for adoption? Is this even viewed as a viable option anymore?

 

[Gameface]

Sure it's an option. In this girls case she would have had to drop out of school as they didn't allow pregnant girls in the regular school and she was to young to go to an alternative ed high school.

But foot a thirteen year old girl pregnancy is much more than an inconvenience.

 

[Stoked]

I myself was nearly aborted (she had an apt set up to abort that was only a few days away) when my future extended adoptive family stepped in. They convinced the mother to have me and even moved her into their home. They cared for and provided for her during her entire pregnancy. When I was born the woman of the family that cared for my bio mom called her sister to come pick up her new bald baby boy.

She drove in from CO and the papers were waiting and the bio mom was long gone. She signed and I went home with her.

 

[♪alt13]

The problem with the distinction you raise is that it is completely arbitrary. There is nothing scientific proving that it is, and for that matter isn't, a life. Pro-choice want to think it isn't life so they can tell themselves they aren't killing a baby. Pro-lifers take the more convervative approach and say if it will turn into a baby it is life at any stage. My thoughts are simple. If you leave it alone will it continue to develop into life, without some outside intervention? If the answer is yes then it is a life. The difference between an embryo and a baby is about 7 months. Time. That is it. It is a race to take it out before you cannot safely argue it isn't a life any further. We could apply this in lots of things. If the cop doesn't catch me then I wasn't speeding. So if I can elude him long enough to get away, then as soon as I get away I am now innocent of anything. But if he catches me soon enough I am guilty. So the lesson is, always run from the police. Yes I know they are different issues, but is the argument itself really that different?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/abortion/child/alive_1.shtml

Every distinction is arbitrary. We draw them. The pope draws it at the condom, you draw it at conception, the supreme court draws it at viability, some states draw it later.

 

[♪alt13]

I myself was nearly aborted (she had an apt set up to abort that was only a few days away) when my future extended adoptive family stepped in. They convinced the mother to have me and even moved her into their home. They cared for and provided for her during her entire pregnancy. When I was born the woman of the family that cared for my bio mom called her sister to come pick up her new bald baby boy.

She drove in from CO and the papers were waiting and the bio mom was long gone. She signed and I went home with her.

Why would your parents tell you that? What purpose does telling you serve? I'm sure you have great parents but I just don't get that.

 

[LogGrad98]

Every distinction is arbitrary. We draw them. The pope draws it at the condom, you draw it at conception, the supreme court draws it at viability, some states draw it later.

So all science is arbitrary since it is just stuff people made up? You are pretty far out on that limb there.

 

[LogGrad98]

Why would your parents tell you that? What purpose does telling you serve? I'm sure you have great parents but I just don't get that.

What purpose does it serve to keep it hidden? Are you adopted by chance? Maybe those who were adopted feel it is a good thing to know rather than to find out.

 

[Archie Moses]

Why would your parents tell you that? What purpose does telling you serve? I'm sure you have great parents but I just don't get that.

Why wouldn't they?

 

[Stoked]

Why would your parents tell you that? What purpose does telling you serve? I'm sure you have great parents but I just don't get that.

So my parents should lie to me? As is natural for a child I had questions and they were honest and rewarded my trust in coming to them.

 

[LogGrad98]

sorry, but this is probably one of the most insulting comments that can be made... and it does reek of "anti-woman" sentiment even though you may claim it's not... it completely downplays the difficulty and emotional toll of the situation for the women (and often the men as well) who are involved

I am not downplaying that any more than they are downplaying the value of human life they created through their actions and no fault of the child itself.



I am also not saying I am entirely against abortion. I think there are times when it would be appropriate. I think those times are when it would pose significant risk to the mother or child, or when a result of unchosen actions (rape, incest, etc.). There may be other case by case instances where it makes sense.

I also think this is a topic that will never be resolved outside of a courtroom. It is a topic on which people will never agree. I think scientists could develop some phantabulous machine in the future that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the zygote feels and thinks and people will still debate it isn't life. I think they could invent a machine that proves that it is nothing more than a clump of cells until it could otherwise survive outside the womb and people will debate it is still a human.

 

[Stoked]

Adoption is huge in my family. Among my family and my siblings families there are 10 of us who are adopted. In my family I have 5 kids and only 3 are mine or my wife's biologically.

Without adoption my extended family would be a empty dull comparison to what it is now.

 

[fishonjazz]

If you leave it alone will it continue to develop into life, without some outside intervention?

I think the answer to this question is no.

The fetus needs the mother to continue to eat, breath air, go to dr appointment and generally take care of her self for that fetus to continue to develop into life.

 

[LogGrad98]

I think the answer to this question is no.

The fetus needs the mother to continue to eat, breath air, go to dr appointment and generally take care of her self for that fetus to continue to develop into life.

And it has that from the get-go unless you take it away. I thought the "leave it alone" implied, you know, leaving it alone where it is in the natural course of things, not ripping it from the womb and throwing it on the floor to see if it lives. I will be more specific next time fish, sorry.

 

[fishonjazz]

And it has that from the get-go unless you take it away. I thought the "leave it alone" implied, you know, leaving it alone where it is in the natural course of things, not ripping it from the womb and throwing it on the floor to see if it lives. I will be more specific next time fish, sorry.

But you don't leave it alone. You go to lots of dr appointments, take all kinds of vitamins and crap, eat certain diets sometimes, avoid smoking, drugs, alcohol, etc
And if the mom died, I doubt the baby survives.

Lots of things need to be done to ensure that the fetus continues to develop.
You can't just leave it alone

 

[Stoked]

But you don't leave it alone. You go to lots of dr appointments, take all kinds of vitamins and crap, eat certain diets sometimes, avoid smoking, drugs, alcohol, etc
And if the mom died, I doubt the baby survives.

Lots of things need to be done to ensure that the fetus continues to develop.
You can't just leave it alone

You can reverse all of that. No Dr. apts, no prenatal vitamins, smoke and drink and the baby will more than likely still be born. It could have serious problems but the baby would be born.

As for the mom dying and the baby dying. That depends on how far along they are and how the mom died. 26 weeks is considered viable outside the womb.