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The War On Christmas Just Got REAL!

carolinajazz said:
Frankly, anyone who claims to be a "Christian" and celebrates a "pagan" based celebration or "holiday" based on a pagan concept.....is not a "Christian", just a "converted" pagan! When you embrace a celebration or holiday that was started by a pagan religion you become the "pagan" worshiper not a supporter of true Christianity! So, as with Christmas, Easter, Halloween, and other "pagan" based customs or celebrations, the pagans "converted" the so called Christians.....not visa versa, you follow me?....make sense?
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No. You're telling me if I celebrate Christmas, that I'm not a Christian? I'm sorry, but I don't believe that has anything to do with where my faith is at.
 
Howard said:
1) I don't know how else I can convince you. I'm part of the group you're talking about, and by and large, we don't care. The poll numbers indicate it's a minority movement. Most articles are talking about the outrage of the supposed outrage. Keep on being oblivious if you want, but the truth is out there if you want to look for it.

2) Lets actually look at what Trump said. I didn't even look it up earlier because quite frankly I don't care what Trump says, but here it is: "No more 'Merry Christmas' at Starbucks. No more," Trump said, noting that the coffee giant is among his tenants at Trump Tower in Manhattan. "Maybe we should boycott Starbucks. I don't know. Seriously. I don't care. By the way: That's the end of that lease. But who cares? Who cares? Who cares?" He's obviously pandering, but I have to wonder, do they teach what the word "maybe" means in Canada? Or did you just read the headline? He's out there saying "Who cares?" Facts. They don't matter.

3) What I'm trying to get at here Dala, is did you ever suppose that maybe because I do live here that I might have a little more perspective than you? I know, I know. You read about it an article, or in a textbook. It qualifies you as an expert. Maybe you should listen to people a little more though. Just saying. I know I wouldn't want to come over here and tell you how Muslims think, especially if you disagreed with it.
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here is what you seem to persistently misunderstand: being from a region is an explanation for why someone may have come to a good conclusion in an argument-- simply being from a region provides does not mean that someone is right or wrong.

If you're off-base about American politics, it don't mean **** if you're American. Simple referring to 'textbooks and articles' is laughably anti-intellectual, and pisses in the face of a nation that makes decisions every second of the day based on scientific inquiry across every sector of society.

If you think that living in America provides you with more perspective, then prove it. Point out what my shortcomings are. If living in Montana has provided you with the information that fundamentalist Christians are all one-group, and think identically on this cup-issue then it's clear that living in Montana has not provided you with any intellectual edge in this discussion.


You can absolutely talk about Muslims. However, not knowing many, or not being one tends to cause some generalizations. That is not to say that every Muslim's opinion is superior to every opinion of a non-Muslim strictly because of identity. There are many non-Muslim commentaries on Muslim-affairs that are more intelligent than mine (Glenn Greenwald comes to mind). Again, roots and status are a means for understanding ones position-- they are not the position itself.

PS: that wasn't his only quote on the Starbucks affair
 
Howard said:
No. You're telling me if I celebrate Christmas, that I'm not a Christian? I'm sorry, but I don't believe that has anything to do with where my faith is at.
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If you celebrate ANY pagan holidays....or believe the evolution bunk over creation, then yes, you are not a "true" Christian! You would be classified as an "apostate" Christian, that is one who has deviated from the teachings of Christ as outlined in the Bible. Some apostates profess to know and serve God but reject teachings or requirements set out in his Word.

(1*Tim. 4:1: “The inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons.”)

(2*John 9,*10: “Everyone that pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God.)
 
Dala...how can you read that and think I said because I'm from America and you're not, that I'm right and you're not. Literally how did you come to that conclusion? I said it gives me more perspective, not that it makes me right. Youre smart enough to figure out the difference. Congrats on ignoring the rest of my post though.
 
Also, you and I both know I'm not anti-intellectual. I just happen to hold real life experience a lot higher than you. I think the idea that you could go to somebody and tell them all about what they do because you read it in a book is incredibly pretentious. I'm for a combination of real life experience and intellectualism. It's not difficult. You're just twisting things to hear what you want to because of your extreme bias.
 
Howard said:
Also, you and I both know I'm not anti-intellectual. I just happen to hold real life experience a lot higher than you. I think the idea that you could go to somebody and tell them all about what they do because you read it in a book is incredibly pretentious. I'm for a combination of real life experience and intellectualism. It's not difficult. You're just twisting things to hear what you want to because of your extreme bias.
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This is a sunk argument tbh. As long as you refuse to admit that not everyone does fundamental Christianity like you do (shocker, millions of people don't all respond to an issue in the exact same way) there's no way we're gonna meet in the middle. Your real life experience of living in a community with fundamental Christians doesn't enhance your point in this discussion. If I said "ALL fundamentalists" are upset then your experience would hold credence. Here it doesn't. I obviously value experience as well, but it's situational and contextual.
 
Howard said:
Dala...how can you read that and think I said because I'm from America and you're not, that I'm right and you're not. Literally how did you come to that conclusion? I said it gives me more perspective, not that it makes me right. Youre smart enough to figure out the difference. Congrats on ignoring the rest of my post though.
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That's the implication it leaves, and it's the third time in the past 2 months that something along those lines has been mentioned by yourself. Really comes across as a way to belittle my points without actually disputing the content of my posts.
 
dalamon said:
This is a sunk argument tbh. As long as you refuse to admit that not everyone does fundamental Christianity like you do (shocker, millions of people don't all respond to an issue in the exact same way) there's no way we're gonna meet in the middle. Your real life experience of living in a community with fundamental Christians doesn't enhance your point in this discussion. If I said "ALL fundamentalists" are upset then your experience would hold credence. Here it doesn't. I obviously value experience as well, but it's situational and contextual.
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I never said they all do, never even implied it. I just said I was a member of that group and said I hadn't seen people from my group make a big deal out of it, leading to the credence that it is a minority movement. If it was anything but, don't you think maybe I would be one of the first people to hear about it? And maybe I wouldn't.

Where is your proof that it's anything more than a minority movement Dala, and if it isn't a minority movement, what is it? Put a name on it, please.
 
dalamon said:
That's the implication it leaves, and it's the third time in the past 2 months that something along those lines has been mentioned by yourself. Really comes across as a way to belittle my points without actually disputing the content of my posts.
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Except I've been talking about the content of your posts while you skirt around the edges of mine. You knew exactly what I meant, you're just trying to avoid the actual discussion. I'll leave you with the question I asked in my previous post. Please answer it.
 
Howard said:
I never said they all do, never even implied it. I just said I was a member of that group and said I hadn't seen people from my group make a big deal out of it, leading to the credence that it is a minority movement. If it was anything but, don't you think maybe I would be one of the first people to hear about it? And maybe I wouldn't.

Where is your proof that it's anything more than a minority movement Dala, and if it isn't a minority movement, what is it? Put a name on it, please.
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I feel no desire to continue this pissing contest. The advisors of a leading presidential campaign aren't going to tell their candidate to say remarks to pander to voters that could cost him millions, if it's only for an "extreme minority" (your words). End of discussion. If you disagree, that's your prerogative.
 
Howard, weather or not you care about the starbucks cups, does it make you think less of Trump because he's standing up for the notion that this is a Christian nation and that we follow Christian customs and live by Christian values?
 
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