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Hayward excitement level

KD's Framily said:
You could definitely make the argument for Kawhi being top 5 this year.
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He is top 5. Easily the best defender and is shooting 50% from the 3pt line while being a 1st option. The only negative on him is that he doesnt get to the FT line at a high rate.
 
fishonjazz said:
I feel the same way I have always felt about him.

I like him allot and think he is a really good player but not a franchise star max money type player.
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So I understand the sentiment here, but the problem is that Max Money player and franchise star are not one and the same. The market where Hayward got a max deal necessitated the money. Any team in the league would pay him that money, so he is a "market max" guy. There are players (Kanter) who got more money, but they are obviously a worse piece for the team. In 3 years, a Hayward type player will probably get less than the max, and that is what he is really worth, but right now, if a player has even a hint of all star potential, they are a max player, at least for the last two offseasons and possibly this coming one.

Also, Hayward is freaking good. Not great, but pretty damn good.
 
b_line said:
So I understand the sentiment here, but the problem is that Max Money player and franchise star are not one and the same. The market where Hayward got a max deal necessitated the money. Any team in the league would pay him that money, so he is a "market max" guy. There are players (Kanter) who got more money, but they are obviously a worse piece for the team. In 3 years, a Hayward type player will probably get less than the max, and that is what he is really worth, but right now, if a player has even a hint of all star potential, they are a max player, at least for the last two offseasons and possibly this coming one.

Also, Hayward is freaking good. Not great, but pretty damn good.
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Ya, you are right I think.
I don't hate his current contract. I just hope we don't have to pay him like 25 million per year for his next deal
 
Fair enough on Kawaii being #5. Steph, KD, Lebron, AD (in no order I put above him. I agree I would take him over Harden, Westbrook, and CP3 that ESPN put him below at the first of the year.

I guess my point is SA isn't great because they have a guy that takes over games when needed. This year their greatness comes from a system/culture/coach, not top players. It will be interested to see if they do it with that method.
 
b_line said:
So I understand the sentiment here, but the problem is that Max Money player and franchise star are not one and the same. The market where Hayward got a max deal necessitated the money. Any team in the league would pay him that money, so he is a "market max" guy. There are players (Kanter) who got more money, but they are obviously a worse piece for the team. In 3 years, a Hayward type player will probably get less than the max, and that is what he is really worth, but right now, if a player has even a hint of all star potential, they are a max player, at least for the last two offseasons and possibly this coming one.

Also, Hayward is freaking good. Not great, but pretty damn good.
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You can't blame Hayward for taking the money. If someone offered me a $500K/year salary for being the 30th best worker in my company, ****, I take the money and let the haters hate.
 
akirac73 said:
You can't blame Hayward for taking the money. If someone offered me a $500K/year salary for being the 30th best worker in my company, ****, I take the money and let the haters hate.
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Absolutely. Although I think he is borderline top 20 guy in the NBA. Favors is slightly better.
 
vegas said:
Fair enough on Kawaii being #5. Steph, KD, Lebron, AD (in no order I put above him. I agree I would take him over Harden, Westbrook, and CP3 that ESPN put him below at the first of the year.

I guess my point is SA isn't great because they have a guy that takes over games when needed. This year their greatness comes from a system/culture/coach, not top players. It will be interested to see if they do it with that method.
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I would say this year, Kawhi has been better than AD
 
b_line said:
Absolutely. Although I think he is borderline top 20 guy in the NBA. Favors is slightly better.
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Favors is not as great as you've been making him out to be. He wouldn't be top 20 even if he wasn't completely invisible one out of every three games he plays.
 
Siro said:
Favors is not as great as you've been making him out to be. He wouldn't be top 20 even if he wasn't completely invisible one out of every three games he plays.
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Bro. He hasn't been playing. That's why you can't see him.
 
fishonjazz said:
Well that's simply retarded.
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Not as much as it sounds.

Draymond is the only person in the top 15 in the league in both rebounds and assists. He's leading the Dubs in assists and is the only non-guard in the top 15. His overall stats are 14.7 points, 9.6 rebounds (leads the team), 7.5 assists (leads the team), 1.4 blocks, 1.3 steals (17th in league--ahead of Favors), and is quite clearly an elite defensive presence and their best defender as well as their locomotive and that which makes them run not just emotionally (great, great leader--best in the league imo) but in many ways, functionally, with his ability to run the point forward and find open shots for their shooters as well as himself, in stretching the floor.
 
Not sure we'd be selling Hayward low right now, but hes not playing well enough to warrant the player we want in return.
 
Hayward is better as Robin and not as Batman; a John Taylor and not a Jerry Rice. We need a legit #1 scorer - Hayward will be a 25 PPG guy if we have an all-star-caliber guy like Durant or even Anthony.
 
I can't see Hayward as more then a role player. Meanwhile Hood and Burks have all the potential real assassins. Watch games right now when the going gets tough Hayward doesn't want to take over a game. We have seen Hood take over a forth quarter. Burks brings slashing that we are missing. Hayward is like a utility knife but so are so many players in the NBA. Leonard is able to step up and take over games. George is able to step up and take over games. Hayward has yet to show that he is capable to do anything but be unselfish. I like that he shares the ball. But, he is in the year that he should be doing more then what we see. I don't see defenses focusing on him that is a myth that we are being sold. I don't think Hayward is Robin he is more like Alfred always there but not ready for the big time.
 
Cunning Linguist said:
Not as much as it sounds.

Draymond is the only person in the top 15 in the league in both rebounds and assists. He's leading the Dubs in assists and is the only non-guard in the top 15. His overall stats are 14.7 points, 9.6 rebounds (leads the team), 7.5 assists (leads the team), 1.4 blocks, 1.3 steals (17th in league--ahead of Favors), and is quite clearly an elite defensive presence and their best defender as well as their locomotive and that which makes them run not just emotionally (great, great leader--best in the league imo) but in many ways, functionally, with his ability to run the point forward and find open shots for their shooters as well as himself, in stretching the floor.
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Good point. Those numbers combined with the things he does that doesn't show up in numbers is pretty compelling
 
Mission Accomplished said:
I don't see defenses focusing on him that is a myth that we are being sold.
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Wow. Not sure where to begin. Guarded by top defenders. Tackled on inbound pass. Covered with high physicality.

Taking Hayward out of the game given limited scoring options on the floor (e. g., lyles, neto, gobert) is the primary defensive strategy and such an obvious one opposing teams are deploying.
 
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